• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Double Bass New basses by independent builders vs. old basses

#81
Uncletoad said:
While we are discussing money a couple more questions for discussion. Since the value of basses generally appreciates over time assuming they are being well maintained I wondering about the appreciation rates of Older instruments vs. new builds. I assuming that as new builders continue to rise in their reputations the prices they command increase. I am also assuming the resale values of those instruments they've already built would rise as well. We have seen that older basses especially ones that are properly identified or "pedigreed" appreciate rapidly over 5 to 10 year spans.

What are the differences between appreciation rates of old vs new basses?
Click to expand...

Well Phil, it proportion I haven't seen to many of them re-sold but the ones I did see did not seem to exceed to current price that makers was asking for his new ones. I think the fact that you can do as well sometimes with a new bass than a Bass a few years old by the same maker might cap the prices in that respect. A few years or even 10 doesn't prove how it will fair in 20 or 50 years IF we are here to see it. On that note, I bought a W.B. Wilfer from The Juzek Family back in 1971 that was in the shop since at least '66 if not earlier. I sold it a few years later (crack free) to a bassist friend of mine. Just a few years ago after the Bass was at least 40 years old, the Bass split up n down under the Bridge at both sides, Soundpost and Bassbar cracks. I attribute this to dry New York Apartment Heat.

Bring an old Bass after living for 150-200 years in London or Italy over to the Northeast USA and what what happens!
 
#84
bribass said:
Originally Posted by bribass View Post
Ken, I take it you feel that this credit crunch and recession will have NO effect on the bass market even in the short run? BG

Hello,(tap,tap,tap)...is this thing on?
Click to expand...

Those that want to but and can, do. Those that can't, don't. Those that can afford a 60k Car and only buy a plywood bass, do not either.
 
#86
Uncletoad said:
These three sentences makes very little sense Ken.
Click to expand...

rofl
If I am reading between the lines correctly, I believe he is saying, essentially, "where there is a will, there is a way." And, different people have different priorities. But it's a bit of an exaggeration I'd say. I can't imagine anyone with budget issues and a real career-driven need for a nice carved bass would opt for a $60K car and a $3K plywood bass. Maybe they'd go for the 20-30K car and a 20-30K bass, and that seems ok to me. What good is that nice bass if your car breaks down on the way to the gig?

But then again, there are folks for whom an expensive carved bass is just not a practical option. If you do daily gigs and put that bass through inclement weather, in and out of cars, over turnstiles, on and off of barroom floors... I could never subject a 6 figure instrument to that kind of punishment... and if I did I would die very young.

And the word "but" should be "buy"...
 
#88
Uncletoad said:
These three sentences makes very little sense Ken.
Click to expand...

I was answering this quote;

Originally Posted by bribass View Post
Ken, I take it you feel that this credit crunch and recession will have NO effect on the bass market even in the short run?

BG
Click to expand...

My reply was (with clarification, 'buY' not buT', sry);
Those that want to buY and can, do. Those that can't, don't. Those that can afford a 60k Car and only buy a plywood bass, do not either (buy a more expensive Bass I mean).
Click to expand...

As far as my opinion and the economy which is different for some than others, I am just calling it as I see it from my own experience.
 
#89
Uncletoad said:
These three sentences makes very little sense Ken.
Click to expand...

Also, I was in the middle of that Post when the Phone Rang. First it was Marcus Miller's Producer and while in the middle of that business, Stanley Clarke called me and amongst other things, needed a Bow in NY by tomorrow. Then I turned around and quickly finished the Post because I had to run home to re-Camber a Bow for him and get it shipped out overnight. Sorry about the 'buT/buY' typo. I will try in the future to keep the 'Butt's' out of any future commentary.:D
 
#92
I am finding this very interesting on many levels. I do hope to be in Phil's position in the next year or two so this information from those more in the know like Ken and others is so helpful.

Phil making some assumptions on your lifestyle 25k is a big nut and should be taken very seriously as it would be for many of us, including myself.

Ken's business situation and others that play in professional Orchestras the decision to use credit to make a purchase of a high quality bass makes a ton of sense. For the regular (or maybe not so regular) guy who has a family, a mortgage and aspires to be a better musician this is probably not the best path. On the other hand I don't think borrowing money to buy a car, make home improvements among other things is a great financial decision.

While on that financial note, our economy both in the US and globally is very complex and attempting to forecast the potential future spending habits of DB players is more complex then most think. I don't know how anyone here could link the recent credit crunch or other economic issues to the price of an old DB. I can tell you one thing for sure, someone mentioned earlier that New US made instruments are great values, if that is the case I can tell you for certain that the guys across the pond will take advantage of it, being their increased buying power here in the US. We're seeing that in allot of industries these days.

Back to topic.....Ken made a point earlier in the thread, I won't quote it directly but he mentioned a segment of the market. I think 50 yr old Italian basses, well broken in, not 200 years old and fragile but a great value in the market. I will go back and reread that and starting educating myself in that area as it seems to make allot of sense....

Thanks guys for the knowledge and good luck Phil!

Edit: Here is Ken's post that I found very interesting
KSB - Ken Smith said:
For me, I would prefer a modern handmade Italian Bass that has a refined tone that can Pizz or Bow but may be only 30-40 years old. These prices (in good repair) will start at about where the best of the Germanic stock end (if properly priced). Also, they will go up in value more than a common Shop Bass.

On the new Basses again, some makers make a Bass from time to time and then show it. That is about as good as you can get because you will know if you like it off the bat or not. If it sounds good, it should get better with age if also made well. If the sound isn't what you like, don't' buy it hoping it will change in your favor. You may not live long enough to find out for one and second, it just might never be the sound you are looking for.
Click to expand...
 
#93
CultureSliver said:
I have seen some of the nicest new basses made crack like you wouldn't believe(and not from banging it around). Wood needs to shrink and swell and it is, in my opinion, one of the biggest detours from a new instrument. One of the best things about a well settled instrument is the lack of unnecissary tension. I personally have always been partial to the old basses, they have more character. But I love to look at the beautiful new basses from Mario Lamar and Daniel Hachez and drool over the superb craftsmanship. But when it comes to my sound, old is gold.
Click to expand...
I think it's safe to assume that Hatchez doesn't buy his wood at Home Depot, and that it is properly aged and dried. And I know this to be true for Arnold Schnitzer.
 
#95
Toad, why not look for a healthy older german bass in the 8k to 16k range. There are plenty of smaller ¾ of relatively high quality available at attractive prices. Although they lack the volume potential of bigger basses they can have very sweet voices and are so much easier to get around on. Plus you’d be more likely to take it on gigs.
 
#96
Carl Johnson said:
Toad, why not look for a healthy older german bass in the 8k to 16k range. There are plenty of smaller ¾ of relatively high quality available at attractive prices. Although they lack the volume potential of bigger basses they can have very sweet voices and are so much easier to get around on. Plus you’d be more likely to take it on gigs.
Click to expand...
Might end up there, I still don't have a sense of what's available for the dough I have.

I do have a penchant for big basses. My Cleveland isn't small and I could handle bigger and the 42 is just fine. I'm a sucker for a big sound....something so big and deep you just HAVE to put spirocores on it to keep it defined.
 
#97
Uncletoad said:
I do have a penchant for big basses. My Cleveland isn't small and I could handle bigger and the 42 is just fine. I'm a sucker for a big sound....something so big and deep you just HAVE to put spirocores on it to keep it defined.
Click to expand...

No need to drop hints: I already said I'd let you know when it goes on the block when Nnick finishes the repair on the other bass. You've got dibs.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back