New Bergantino Neo Line; Pt. 2

[gkbass13]

Thanks for the response, Ken!

"Anemic" is certainly a worry of mine, as I do really love the TH350 through my HT cabs(the DB is tentatively for sale....as I said, consolidating...thinning, etc..). I think a trip to Rudy's or Bass Specialities is probably going to be necessary before making a major Cab move. Then again, my track record would prove that I'm not terribly opposed to buying things for the sake of trying them out at home and on a gig. we shall see. 46 lbs may be the swaying factor...and maybe one of the HT cabs will stay to accompany it for at home/studio use.

 

[Laurent]

Unfortunately, it is often easier to screw up your tone with EQ than it is to fix it.

So, so true. That should be quoted in a bass book.
Thank you for sharing your insight and your wisdom on this topic. You continue to be a real Prince.

I wish you continuous success with Bass Gear Magazine.

 

[RColie]

Hey Ken,
I hope all is well with you. The Roscoe bug bit me recently as well. I picked up a new Century Standard 6 plus - ash body, wenge fingerboard, cocobolo top. Very nice, very different than my Jazz basses.

Well, this is a Bergantino thread, so here's the tie-in. While I still love my TC112s, GAS (mainly from your CN reviews) caused me to pick up two CN112s. I played a couple of gigs with the Roscoe into ShuttleMAX 12.2 into 2 CN112s and it worked out very well. The drummer and guitar player in my jazz/rock trio made comments like "articulate", "clear", "balanced", and "you can hear all the nuances of the notes and your technique". That last comment worried me a bit - I'd better go home and practice some more.

Anyway, just another flavor of great for me.

Let me know if you'll be playing in St. Louis anytime soon.

Bob

Used trans orange Century Signature V with all the fancy upgrades. The Trans Orange just grabbed me Totally different from anything else I own in every way. About as far from vintage as you can get in look, feel and tone. Fun to have that flavor and that super fast, super thin muli-lam neck thing in the otherwise 'vintage copy' stable Never owned a Roscoe before. Beautiful, top of class woodwork and finish, and that massive B string tone. Didn't need it, but there you go

 

[KJung]

Hey Ken,
I hope all is well with you. The Roscoe bug bit me recently as well. I picked up a new Century Standard 6 plus - ash body, wenge fingerboard, cocobolo top. Very nice, very different than my Jazz basses.

Well, this is a Bergantino thread, so here's the tie-in. While I still love my TC112s, GAS (mainly from your CN reviews) caused me to pick up two CN112s. I played a couple of gigs with the Roscoe into ShuttleMAX 12.2 into 2 CN112s and it worked out very well. The drummer and guitar player in my jazz/rock trio made comments like "articulate", "clear", "balanced", and "you can hear all the nuances of the notes and your technique". That last comment worried me a bit - I'd better go home and practice some more.

Anyway, just another flavor of great for me.

Let me know if you'll be playing in St. Louis anytime soon.

Bob

Hey Bob! I just finished woodshedding the Roscoe some more a minute ago. Yeah, VERY unforgiving. I dig it quite a bit for what it is. And yeah, the Berg's make it sing!

I did the Ritz lobby a couple of Friday's ago (the night of the big storms and tornado). No club work for the next few months. Hope you are well. Louisville this weekend with the Roscoe and Berg rig!

 

[McFarlin]

...really love the TH350 through my HT cabs(the DB is tentatively for sale....as I said, consolidating...thinning, etc..).

Based on what I usually read about amp power vs. cab efficiency, I would assume the CN cabs would give you a lot more with the 175/350 you should get from the TH350.

The HT series was one of those where folks (including Jim B.) claimed you should use 1.5-2x the rated wattage handling to power the box, which was a big motivator for the IP series. So, 500W seemed to be proper for the IP112ER (or HT). Based on this idea, seems like the 175 from TH350 would "under power" the 8ohm HT box (using that term loosely due to awareness of varied opinions).
Like the HS series, shouldn't even a CN112 make a lot more noise with a TH350 pushing its rated 175/8 (due to mid voicing and efficiency)?

Back when I bought my first HS210 (that eventually replaced my IP/HT ER cabs) reading this note by Ed Friedland really helped justify my purchase (explained a bit about HT and HS):
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Based on all this, seems like the DB750 should provide much more appropriate power to move the HT series woofers. And the CN would be a better match for the TH350/500 heads, assuming CN efficiency is similar to the HS series. (?)

 

[IglooBass]

Greetings ..

A question about the CN212 cab ... I've read through all the posted opinions and investigated all the Youtube clips. I play in a bunch of different bands where one night I'm playing super clean funk and the next night it's more old school tone with a bit of hair and the next night it's a bit more experimental creating ambient atmospheres etc. I know this cab does clean great - will it handle the overdrive tones well ? I've been really turned off to most new cabs over the last few years since most cabs have either had that low mid hump built in or have been all lows and highs with no meat in between. I've been using mostly all flavors of GK for the last bunch of years with some older vintage heads thrown in.


Thanx.

 

[KJung]

Greetings ..

A question about the CN212 cab ... I've read through all the posted opinions and investigated all the Youtube clips. I play in a bunch of different bands where one night I'm playing super clean funk and the next night it's more old school tone with a bit of hair and the next night it's a bit more experimental creating ambient atmospheres etc. I know this cab does clean great - will it handle the overdrive tones well ? I've been really turned off to most new cabs over the last few years since most cabs have either had that low mid hump built in or have been all lows and highs with no meat in between. I've been using mostly all flavors of GK for the last bunch of years with some older vintage heads thrown in.


Thanx.

This cab is VERY even from high to low, so no issue there. The top end is very warm and organic sounding (paper cone) for a two way cab with tweeter, so for mild overdrive (e.g., adding some grind in a P Bass tone or whatever), it seems fantastic. If you are talking about full out fuzz/distortion, I would not recommend any cab with a tweeter. You would be better off there IMO with a nice execution of a mid driver cab. Jim just happens to be starting to ship one of those very soon.. the 15/6. Roger Baers ML cabs also sound very nice with some severe grind and distortion.

 

[Doug Parent]

I'd agree with this. Actually, I prefer the CN212 voicing, a bit tighter and more articulate, with a bit more clarity in the upper mids. Pretty hard to EQ the HD 12 cabs to sound like the CN's also. Both great, and would appeal to different players.

I've never, EVER been in a situation where I wished the CN212 had 'more low end'. This is IMO the 'magic' of the CN212.... all the punch and cut of the AE410 with a more open low end in significantly smaller, lighter package. A dream for those looking for a kind of 'modern meets vintage' tone, and the comments above about the 'organic, papercone nature' of the top end is spot on.

I noticed that right away being a significant difference between the CN and AE. It seems like that high end "snap" has been integrated into a more open upper midrange response. Pretty seamlessly I might add.

 

[pauliebass]

This thread is delightfully dangerous to read. My for sale pile is adding up.

 

[GRoberts]

I noticed that right away being a significant difference between the CN and AE. It seems like that high end "snap" has been integrated into a more open upper midrange response. Pretty seamlessly I might add.

Yes exactly what I heard! ...and evidenced when I compared the Berg CN212 or CN112 to the Baer ML112. (The Baer has a 12" and 6" Midrange driver and NO Tweeter) the Top end of the CN212 and Baer's were surprisingly similar. No Hyped treble 'zing'. But plenty of sweet, fluid organic high end from the Bergantino CN cab.

 

[SuperFunkyPete]

Does anyone happen to know what the drivers are in the CN212? It would make comparison a little easier. Over in the UK, the main competitors for me are the Barefaced Super 12T, Vanderkley 212MNT. The Vanderkley is seriously good but weighs a bit more; the Super 12T is well reviewed but has a long lead time.

Vanderkleys are packing Faital drivers (12FH520 is the best guess over on Basschat), Barefaced are kicking it with Eminence 3012HO (IIRC).

Anyone able to shed some light?

 

[gkbass13]

The organic high end is really appealing to me. My Fodera Emperor with dual coils and the pope preamp has a lot of nice treble going on, but is very EQ friendly as well...I really dig what Aguilar heads and Berg cabs that I have tried do with this high end, as i feel more "modern" sounding amp/cab pairings might get too sizzly or glassy for me. Still really interested in the CN 2x12 as a possible one cab solution with a TH500 powering it.

The Fodera low B is pretty addicting also, and I didn't get all I wanted from a pair of AE 2x10's as far as low end response is concerned. Could I expect to be more impressed by how the CN 12 loaded cabs handle and reproduce lower register playing? I don't want boomy or overly "blossoming" lowend like the epifani ul's can be guilty of, nor do I want super attenuated lows like the HS 2x10 and AE 2x10(first horizontal versions) have going on.

Thanks everyone!

Grady

 

[KJung]

Does anyone happen to know what the drivers are in the CN212? It would make comparison a little easier. Over in the UK, the main competitors for me are the Barefaced Super 12T, Vanderkley 212MNT. The Vanderkley is seriously good but weighs a bit more; the Super 12T is well reviewed but has a long lead time.

Vanderkleys are packing Faital drivers (12FH520 is the best guess over on Basschat), Barefaced are kicking it with Eminence 3012HO (IIRC).

Anyone able to she'd some light?

Jim does not use 'off the shelf drivers'. I've found his OEM tweaks significant, and of course, his crossovers are out of this world. Even knowing the 'off the shelf model' that Jim's OEM is based on doesn't really help describe the actual tone and performance IMO and IME (based on this exercise through the years with his other cabs).

The CN212 pounds as hard as any 2 x 3012HO cab, but is much smoother up top, with more low mid meat to the voicing. I have not heard the Faital 12's, but the CN212 does bring to mind some of the 2 x 15 Faital variants I've heard. Lots going on up top with Jim's crossover though. VERY seamless transition from the top of the driver to the tweeter, and some sweetening of the tweeter also.... very paper cone sounding up top.

 

[KJung]

The Fodera low B is pretty addicting also, and I didn't get all I wanted from a pair of AE 2x10's as far as low end response is concerned. Could I expect to be more impressed by how the CN 12 loaded cabs handle and reproduce lower register playing?

Grady

Absolutely. Beautiful handling of that all important 1st harmonic (are is it the 2nd...always get that mixed up, but you know what I mean). Very even from the Eb down to open B to my ears, but not bloomy.

I recently purchased a Roscoe 5 string, and the Roscoe B is HUGE...even more than the Fodera's I've owned/played. Really punchy but big B string that gets the drivers moving. Handles that bass wonderfully. I would guess it would really help those big, wide open B string tones on MTD basses, which can really get out of hand with some cabs IMO and IME.

 

[gkbass13]

Thanks Ken!

That is what I was hoping to hear. The 2x10's I've tried just didn't cut it for me down there. The AE 1x12 is a glorious little cab though. I dug it for small stuff when I ahd it, but then when I heard the AE 2x12 I found it to be slightly less punchy and lacking the clarity I was craving at the time. I'm going to schlep the Emperor down to Rudy's or Bass Specialties sometime soon and from the sound of it, might be heading home with a CN2x12.

 

[KJung]

Thanks Ken!

That is what I was hoping to hear. The 2x10's I've tried just didn't cut it for me down there. The AE 1x12 is a glorious little cab though. I dug it for small stuff when I ahd it, but then when I heard the AE 2x12 I found it to be slightly less punchy and lacking the clarity I was craving at the time. I'm going to schlep the Emperor down to Rudy's or Bass Specialties sometime soon and from the sound of it, might be heading home with a CN2x12.

Yes, while I love the open, smooth, somewhat hi fi voicing of the AE212, it can get a bit flubby with the wrong head. The AE112 was a punchy, grindy little beast (very different crossover and voicing versus the AE212), but to me lacked 'balls' down low.

The CN212 fixes all of that IMO.

 

[gkbass13]

Awesome. I might head down to the city next weekend. Looking forward to trying one of these. Now I just have to show some will power and refrain from ordering one before playing one...Jim's shop is also less than 3 hours from me. hmmmm...

 

[KJung]

Awesome. I might head down to the city next weekend. Looking forward to trying one of these. Now I just have to show some will power and refrain from ordering one before playing one...Jim's shop is also less than 3 hours from me. hmmmm...

I have not heard the CN112. The stack does sound just a smidge different from the CN212 (from TBers' reports who have tried both), but close enough with a bit of EQ from what I read (and what I heard on a comparison clip). That 46 pound CN212 is kind of the 'sweet spot' for me personally. Simple schlep with a small cart, and quite a bit less money than the 2 x 112, but if you want the modular thing, I'm sure that would kill also.

 

[Doug Parent]

Does anyone happen to know what the drivers are in the CN212? It would make comparison a little easier. Over in the UK, the main competitors for me are the Barefaced Super 12T, Vanderkley 212MNT. The Vanderkley is seriously good but weighs a bit more; the Super 12T is well reviewed but has a long lead time.

Vanderkleys are packing Faital drivers (12FH520 is the best guess over on Basschat), Barefaced are kicking it with Eminence 3012HO (IIRC).

Anyone able to shed some light?

His propriety tweaks on the Deltalite II no doubt, and the venerable and durable PHT-410.

 

[GRoberts]

I have not heard the CN112. The stack does sound just a smidge different from the CN212 (from TBers' reports who have tried both), but close enough with a bit of EQ from what I read (and what I heard on a comparison clip). That 46 pound CN212 is kind of the 'sweet spot' for me personally. Simple schlep with a small cart, and quite a bit less money than the 2 x 112, but if you want the modular thing, I'm sure that would kill also.

Agree times one million ....based on my recent demo / Comparison. The CN212 is more articulate and retains a sweeter more complex midrange and upper midrange voice compared to the stacked 1x12 Bergs. The single CN212 makes a LOT more sense unless you use a single 1x12 cab here and there. I did not feel a single CN112 would make me happy when I am doing quieter gigs. Alone, the 1x12 CN112 is too limiting if and when I need 'more.'

So for me, it's the CN212. One cab, easy. Great sounding at all volumes too since it is voiced with such great articulation.

My AE410 is officially FS in the emporium.