New Bergantino Neo Line; Pt. 2

[GRoberts]

That is a beauty. Had one for a while... missed the bite of a 'true J' in the mix, and just never could get used to that unusual way the BN's 'hung' on the strap... WAY over to the left. Just always felt very strange to me. Beautifully made instruments though, and one of the most relaxed, transparent preamps on the market.

Well I still have my Nordy J's and The F Bass must come home. IT was one of those 'fits my hand, fits my sound' instant love moments!

Also Played an LG5 for the first time. Oh yeah. I "get it". But for the $$? ouch. Don't get it quite as much

Sorry for the derail ..but ALL of these were played through the Bergantino cab's. OK?

 

[Doug Parent]

@ Doug, you own both the AE410 and now have a CN212? I was gonna take my AE410 to compare, but decided I didn't want to schlep it. (Another reason why I want to let it go. Tired of carrying it) ..But curious how they sound side-by-side to you? CN212 versus AE410?

I'm sure Ken will have some worthwhile observations about that comparison, however I will need some time to compare those two when time permits. My initial impression about the CN212 was that it sounds like it's from the AE410 gene pool somehow, the voicing isn't as far off as you'd expect comparing a 410 to a 212.

edit: however if I determine that the output overall speaking is comparable to the 410, it could appear on the classifieds one day, not out of the question.

 

[KJung]

Well I still have my Nordy J's and The F Bass must come home. IT was one of those 'fits my hand, fits my sound' instant love moments!

Also Played an LG5 for the first time. Oh yeah. I "get it". But for the $$? ouch. Don't get it quite as much

Sorry for the derail ..but ALL of these were played through the Bergantino cab's. OK?

Yeah, I'm glad I bought my A-C LM5 way back when they were priced 'reasonably'. I LOVE mine (best 70's style J on the planet IMO), but for the current prices, I find it hard to recommend them at this point.

Seriously, cool on the FBass... beautifully made instruments. I again enjoy a bit more bite in my tone in a mix, but they are just beautiful, and really have a unique feel and tone. I call them 'J Basses on satin' (as a kind of play on the 'J Bass on Steroids' description).

 

[KJung]

I'm sure Ken will have some worthwhile observations about that comparison, however I will need some time to compare those two when time permits. My initial impression about the CN212 was that it sounds like it's from the AE410 gene pool somehow, the voicing isn't as far off as you'd expect comparing a 410 to a 212.

edit: however if I determine that the output overall speaking is comparable to the 410, it could appear on the classifieds one day, not out of the question.

I posted quite a bit about that in the previous CN thread. +1, very few AE410 users (or HD/HS410 users for that matter) wouldn't be quite happy with the CN212 IMO.

 

[mothra2]

Yeah, I'm glad I bought my A-C LM5 way back when they were priced 'reasonably'. I LOVE mine (best 70's style J on the planet IMO), but for the current prices, I find it hard to recommend them at this point.
...

They ain't cheap, at least with blocks and bindings, but... my recently built LM5 just KILLS! (and I owned 2 LG5's)

 

[KJung]

They ain't cheap, at least with blocks and bindings, but... my recently built LM5 just KILLS! (and I owned 2 LG5's)

+1 Definitely IMO the best interpretation of a 70's J in an uber quality hi end package that I've come across.

Interestingly, all the LG's I've played had their own thing and sounded quite different from each other, while the LM's I've played sounded remarkably consistent across instruments. But they are pricey at this point!

 

[mothra2]

and the wait time...jeesh!

By contrast, a few weeks wait on a CN212 is quite timely. Granted, a MUCH quicker thing to build, but when I see these impatient posts I just smile and think... 'you don't know what real waiting is'

 

[GRoberts]

Yeah, I'm glad I bought my A-C LM5 way back when they were priced 'reasonably'. I LOVE mine (best 70's style J on the planet IMO), but for the current prices, I find it hard to recommend them at this point.

Seriously, cool on the FBass... beautifully made instruments. I again enjoy a bit more bite in my tone in a mix, but they are just beautiful, and really have a unique feel and tone. I call them 'J Basses on satin' (as a kind of play on the 'J Bass on Steroids' description).

For the record, I had my Nordy VJ5C Ash/Maple 70's spacing with me. Did a Direct A-B... The F Bass was a religious experience. Bites in Single Coil mode, growls, wow., Just WOW! ..and I know what it sounds like through the Bergantino CN212 which has great articulation. So I have all the info neeed. Killed machine. I read that the Macassar Ebony FB might give more 'fundamental' ...dunno. But it was Punchy and growled and I would say LOTS of bite. ...and since I owned two BN5's before, I never took issue with the strap / way it hung.

Carry on. We now return you to the Berg NEO thread!

 

[Laurent]

Finally got a chance to check out a Bergantino CN212 in person!

I was finally able to play, hear and compare the CN212! Thanks to my TB friend "Capt Wally" for bringing his CN112 cab to the Shop. The shop had an HD112 in stock, so I was able to compare the Bergantino CN212 to a modular stack consisting of a Bergantino CN112 & HD112. VERY interesting day of shootouts!

1. CN212 = All kinds of awesome! Very impressive. I now understand the correlation to the AE series of Bergantino cabs. In my opinion, the CN212 behaves with the quickness, focus and punch of 10's, but has more fullness and low mid punch. It handles the B string with finesse., It growls and offers authority along with sweetness. The transition from low frequencies to mid-range and highs is very fluid and seamless. The CN212 cab handles boosting EQ with equal grace and finesse. (If you need to punch up the low end for a more supportive bass sound which I sometimes do.) I don't typically bump the bass EQ on my Nordy up more than 10%. That's PLENTY and gives more low end fullness to create a bigger, more supportive low-end that works well in the current/top 40 music mix I play. When I bumped the Low-end a little, I was rewarded with a full, punchy and focused low bass range without becoming overly bloomy, round or pillowy. It maintains a very articulate voice. (My preference!)

2. The HD212 overall sounded a little better and was meatier slightly in the lows and mids, but the CN212 takes EQ so well, I could get very close to the same tone, but without the calories! Didn't spend much time on the HD212 since lighter weight is one of the primary features compelling me to consider a CN212.

Interesting point. Do others feel the CN212 can be made to sound like the HD212 via eq?

Also how to the HD212 and CN212 sound driven by an SVT? There has been many posts about different D class amps but very few comments about tube heads.

 

[Doug Parent]

Interesting point. Do others feel the CN212 can be made to sound like the HD212 via eq?

not exactly no but probably can mimic it. Those cabs have different personalities.

 

[Munjibunga]

I'm sure Ken will have some worthwhile observations about that comparison, however I will need some time to compare those two when time permits. My initial impression about the CN212 was that it sounds like it's from the AE410 gene pool somehow, the voicing isn't as far off as you'd expect comparing a 410 to a 212.

edit: however if I determine that the output overall speaking is comparable to the 410, it could appear on the classifieds one day, not out of the question.

I agree. It's pretty tight sounding for 12s. I talked to Jim today, and he says the same thing. The CN212 has gobs of volume, and you could probably play any gig with it where you might otherwise use an AE410.

 

[hennessybass]

Interesting point. Do others feel the CN212 can be made to sound like the HD212 via eq?

Also how to the HD212 and CN212 sound driven by an SVT? There has been many posts about different D class amps but very few comments about tube heads.

No experience with the HD212, but I do think the CN212 takes eq very well. Able to dial in some very nice tones with the TFunk. Really think it sounds nice with a boost almost anywhere in the 1-4K range. Didn't much care for any boost in the 400-1K range, but didn't feel like it needed any cut in that range either. I may try bumping up some bass freq next time I play, but it's already so punchy!

I am realy looking forward to trying the CN out with some tube heads. I am in the middle of moving, so stuff is packed up, and it's not the best time right now. I have a feeling that the CN is going to kill with my Bassman 100. Nice tight bottom end and strong mid voice will make for a good pair... I think.

 

[nostatic]

5. Baer ML112 compare to a single CN112 or to a single HD112. The Baer ML112 buried a single CN112 or the HD112 in my opinion. The Baer ML112 was sounded and played deeper, fuller, and was surprisingly as articulate in the treble/slap tone region. Simply wonderful. For my 1x12 needs, the Baer ML112 will always get the call. I will say however, I was surprised at how well the Baer ML112 top end compared to the Bergantino CN212. The Baer does not have a Tweeter. The Bergantino does. But both had wonderful presence in the upper frequency ranges.

6. Baer ML112 cab compared to the Bergantino CN212 cab. ...just to hear the difference. I knew it was not a fair comparison, but I wanted the data point. The CN212 has so much more sound, punch, fullness, authority. Definitely not an apples-to-apples comparison and simply proved what I expected; a 2x12 cab like the Berg CN212 will easily outperform even the best 1x12 cab. (I consider the Baer ML112 to be one the best 1x12 cabs available) All dissimilar contrasts aside, the CN212 plays sweetly at low volumes. For the times when the band gets pumping, sometimes I need a little more punch, fullness or bigger support than a single 1x12 cab will offer. So I might actually use a CN212 for smaller gigs for two reasons; A. the CN 212 Footprint is no larger than Baer (with the Baer vertically oriented), and B; the height of the 212 cab gives better near-field (near my ears) performance.

What about the low/mid character of the two? I found the CN112 (single or a pair) had more low/mid push than the ML112 (single or pair), and didn't quite have the ultra-articulate upper mids. Somewhat similar tone profile though - the Berg isn't really as "hi-fi" as one might think given the tweeter setup.

The footprint of the CN212 is a bit smaller. A pair of ML112s run vertically will be another 15" taller to get things even closer to your ears. The downside is that the pair of the ML112s weighs more than the single CN212. Hard to go wrong either way.

 

[speyer]

I am realy looking forward to trying the CN out with some tube heads.

BIG +1

 

[GRoberts]

What about the low/mid character of the two? I found the CN112 (single or a pair) had more low/mid push than the ML112 (single or pair), and didn't quite have the ultra-articulate upper mids. Somewhat similar tone profile though - the Berg isn't really as "hi-fi" as one might think given the tweeter setup.

The footprint of the CN212 is a bit smaller. A pair of ML112s run vertically will be another 15" taller to get things even closer to your ears. The downside is that the pair of the ML112s weighs more than the single CN212. Hard to go wrong either way.

I completely agree that pair of Bergie 1x12's stacked had more low mid character. The CN212 had more ultra articulate mids. I personally think the articulate mids of the CN212 will work their magic and cut better in a band mix.

I was surprised at how similar the Bergie CN212 top end was to the Baer ML112 and vice versa. The tweeter is not uber hi-fi like older HT Bergie Horns were.

For what its worth, I also tried a CN112 on top of my Baer ML112 and felt it was a horrible mismatch. Didn't like a single thing about that pairing. In my opinion, I strongly advise against it. A pair of Bergie CN1x12's, HD112's or even a CN112/HD112 make a significantly better choice.

A pair of Baer ML112's would be wonderful sonically. No question. But as you said, the pair of Baer ML112 cabs adds up to a lot more weight than the single CN212 and the single CN212 is capable of tremendous output. ...in a much smaller package. Just my opinion.

 

[tombowlus]

Interesting point. Do others feel the CN212 can be made to sound like the HD212 via eq?

EQ can get you close, but IME/IMHO, there is no free lunch when it comes to EQ. When possible, I always find that I get better results when using gear which hits my tone goals with minimal EQ. Unfortunately, it is often easier to screw up your tone with EQ than it is to fix it. The heft, fullness, and low-mid punch of the HD212 is super impressive. That being said, the CN212 is no slouch, and it has the edge in the speed/clarity department.

 

[KJung]

EQ can get you close, but IME/IMHO, there is no free lunch when it comes to EQ. When possible, I always find that I get better results when using gear which hits my tone goals with minimal EQ. Unfortunately, it is often easier to screw up your tone with EQ than it is to fix it. The heft, fullness, and low-mid punch of the HD212 is super impressive. That being said, the CN212 is no slouch, and it has the edge in the speed/clarity department.

I'd agree with this. Actually, I prefer the CN212 voicing, a bit tighter and more articulate, with a bit more clarity in the upper mids. Pretty hard to EQ the HD 12 cabs to sound like the CN's also. Both great, and would appeal to different players.

I've never, EVER been in a situation where I wished the CN212 had 'more low end'. This is IMO the 'magic' of the CN212.... all the punch and cut of the AE410 with a more open low end in significantly smaller, lighter package. A dream for those looking for a kind of 'modern meets vintage' tone, and the comments above about the 'organic, papercone nature' of the top end is spot on.

 

[KJung]

I agree. It's pretty tight sounding for 12s. I talked to Jim today, and he says the same thing. The CN212 has gobs of volume, and you could probably play any gig with it where you might otherwise use an AE410.

+1 This is why we should really not think about 'driver diameter' as a key purchasing criteria at this point. There really is no '10" tone or 12" tone or 15" tone' at this point. It is all about box tuning and the tone profile the driver designer is going for.

 

[gkbass13]

I'd agree with this. Actually, I prefer the CN212 voicing, a bit tighter and more articulate, with a bit more clarity in the upper mids. Pretty hard to EQ the HD 12 cabs to sound like the CN's also. Both great, and would appeal to different players.

I've never, EVER been in a situation where I wished the CN212 had 'more low end'. This is IMO the 'magic' of the CN212.... all the punch and cut of the AE410 with a more open low end in significantly smaller, lighter package. A dream for those looking for a kind of 'modern meets vintage' tone, and the comments above about the 'organic, papercone nature' of the top end is spot on.

Thanks for the notes, reviews, comments, answers, descriptions, and help regarding these new cabs, Ken. You are a great resource, especially to those of us not in close proximity to a Berg dealer.

As I have posted in a few different threads, Sonically I love the tone I am getting from my Aggie TH or DB750 into Berg HT1x12ER and HT322 cabs, using either a Fodera Emperor 5 or a 75 reissue Fender Jazz. Unfortunately, like many other tiers, and people in general for that matter, I am fickle. I also have a less than stellar back and would like to consolidate space...so my question is this:
Will the CN leave me wanting anything that I am currently getting with my HT cabs? I know that the "sparkle" won't be there up top, but although I do consider myself a fan of tweeters(when done right like those of mister Bergantino) I tend to roll them back to 9 or 10 o'clock most of the time. This was the case with my HS cabs,AE cabs, Epifani UL cabs and any others I've owned as well.
The 46 lbs of the CN 2x12 is extremely appealing. As is having a one cab solution, since my 1x12 "small cab" at the moment weighs only slightly less than that and the beastly 322 is over twice that weight.

 

[KJung]

Thanks for the notes, reviews, comments, answers, descriptions, and help regarding these new cabs, Ken. You are a great resource, especially to those of us not in close proximity to a Berg dealer.

As I have posted in a few different threads, Sonically I love the tone I am getting from my Aggie TH or DB750 into Berg HT1x12ER and HT322 cabs, using either a Fodera Emperor 5 or a 75 reissue Fender Jazz. Unfortunately, like many other tiers, and people in general for that matter, I am fickle. I also have a less than stellar back and would like to consolidate space...so my question is this:
Will the CN leave me wanting anything that I am currently getting with my HT cabs? I know that the "sparkle" won't be there up top, but although I do consider myself a fan of tweeters(when done right like those of mister Bergantino) I tend to roll them back to 9 or 10 o'clock most of the time. This was the case with my HS cabs,AE cabs, Epifani UL cabs and any others I've owned as well.
The 46 lbs of the CN 2x12 is extremely appealing. As is having a one cab solution, since my 1x12 "small cab" at the moment weighs only slightly less than that and the beastly 322 is over twice that weight.

Thanks. After all these years, I still enjoy trying to give TBers at least some info on this sort of product that most have no way of 'trying before buying'.

Your question is a difficult one to answer. I can say for sure (as one who gigged the modular version of the TH322 for a while back in the day... the 's' stack) that the CN212 has little in common with the HT322. It is tighter down low, it is MUCH more mid complex and present, and the top end is 'brighter' in the lower treble, and does not have the 'sheen and sparkle' of the old HT crossover and tweeter. So, pretty much totally, completely different voicing.

I like the CN voicing much better myself. The HT322/s stack always SLAMMED down low for me, but that totally clean, hi fi top end and relaxed mid response (especially the relaxed upper mid response) always left me 'wanting' in the busy mixes I play in.

To be clear, the HT322 with a DB750 would be my ultimate nightmare for the tone I try to achieve (that doesn't mean it isn't a totally glorious rig, but is just polar opposite to the punchy, articulate tone I go for).

So, all I can tell you is it would be much different for you. I LOVE the CN212 with my Aguilar TH500, which has much in common with the DB751 to my ear. It tightens and brightens that nice head, and I assume it would do the same with the DB750. However, if you love the HT322, then 'tightening and brightening', which is a positive to me, might sound 'anemic and clacky' to you!


Edit: Always easy to spend someone else's money, but the TH500/CN212 might be a cool 'second rig' for you when you aren't needing the massive wump of the DB750 or the thundering lows of the mighty HT322). It again would be 'warmer, punchier, and brighter (I.e., more clarity in the midrange and upper midrange/lower treble)' than your current big rig, but that might be a good thing in some mixes, and the entire rig would weigh about the same as your DB750 in a rack!).