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New Bergantino Neo Line; Pt. 2

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#383
KJung said:
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However, having stage volume too loud for the front of house to do its job is a typical issue, and a bassist has to really work at keeping that stage level down. Nothing worse for a sound professional than having the bass too loud in the mix and not being able to control it from the board. That, IMO is a player issue, not a gear issue. IMO!
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And this is my concern. Having played very midrange dominant rigs almost at the level of my ears in the past, I think I need to retrain my ears. My goal Friday night is to lower my rig volume and perhaps increase the mids and highs a bit until my ears get used to this. If this works, in time I may back off the mids and highs if it seems appropriate. I was also thinking of tilting the cab back a bit.

I asked my sound guy if he wanted me to back off but he said it sounded great. He was amazed that little rig was doing what it was doing.
 
#385
Bassmanbob said:
And this is my concern. Having played very midrange dominant rigs almost at the level of my ears in the past, I think I need to retrain my ears. My goal Friday night is to lower my rig volume and perhaps increase the mids and highs a bit until my ears get used to this. If this works, in time I may back off the mids and highs if it seems appropriate. I was also thinking of tilting the cab back a bit.

I asked my sound guy if he wanted me to back off but he said it sounded great. He was amazed that little rig was doing what it was doing.
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I was in the same place as you were for decades. Very super articulate, full range tone with stainless rounds, lots of upper mid brightness. The TH500 (especially with a P Bass and the punch and low end meat of the CN212) really does slot you differently in the mix. It took me some getting used to (mainly the P and Aguilar, since the CN212 will do the modern tone with the best of them).

As I've 'matured' over the years :D, I'm much more interested in modeling my live bass tone on nicely produced Pop music recordings, versus my traditional attempt at the 'killer bass tone' with no thought of the context (i.e., super full range, super articulate, super big lows, lots of brightness, etc.). For the most part, that sound is hated by pop/rock/country producers and engineers.

I guess if I had 'fusion chops' it would be a bit different, but I don't:D
 
#386
KJung said:
I was in the same place as you were for decades. Very super articulate, full range tone with stainless rounds, lots of upper mid brightness. The TH500 (especially with a P Bass and the punch and low end meat of the CN212) really does slot you differently in the mix. It took me some getting used to (mainly the P and Aguilar, since the CN212 will do the modern tone with the best of them).

As I've 'matured' over the years :D, I'm much more interested in modeling my live bass tone on nicely produced Pop music recordings, versus my traditional attempt at the 'killer bass tone' with no thought of the context (i.e., super full range, super articulate, super big lows, lots of brightness, etc.). For the most part, that sound is hated by pop/rock/country producers and engineers.

I guess if I had 'fusion chops' it would be a bit different, but I don't:D
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Nicely said. I share your point of view.
 
#387
KJung said:
As I've 'matured' over the years :D, I'm much more interested in modeling my live bass tone on nicely produced Pop music recordings, versus my traditional attempt at the 'killer bass tone' with no thought of the context
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Took me 10 yrs to figure this one out. Why I so happy with my tone with using high-end basses and amps at home, then never really felt inspired on the gig in a live mix? Now playing basses and amps that model that sort of 'vintage' sound you hear on recordings as Ken puts it... I've never been happier! Every time I play a gig I can tell that my tone is KILLER... and sounds and feels great mixed with the band.

The CN212 helps me get the job done by really improving my stage volume and clarity in every venue. I can also hear that classic "bergness" in my tone again (especially up-top).. which is a good thing, but maybe even slightly 'hi-fi' for my tone goals at this point. YMMV of course, but these cabs are great do-all bass cabs for suitable for all basses, amps and playing styles styles IMO.
 
#388
If I may add. Our mileage does vary our touch sure does. For me that super articulate full range gives me full control over my tone by my hands. So the tune & genre tell me what part of my hand and fingers to use while my rig stays the same. You know how some folks hate tweeters? You can't tell I have them in a blues gig. I hate to go play something and the rig can't do it either by its limitations or it is over eq'd.

So no disrespect to anyone here. Ken I've heard you play. Monster. I'm just saying what works for me.
 
#389
chadds said:
If I may add. Our mileage does vary our touch sure does. For me that super articulate full range gives me full control over my tone by my hands. So the tune & genre tell me what part of my hand and fingers to use while my rig stays the same. You know how some folks hate tweeters? You can't tell I have them in a blues gig. I hate to go play something and the rig can't do it either by its limitations or it is over eq'd.
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+1 all the way. Totally different strokes for different folks,and many, many ways to get 'er done!

I'm unfortunately in that obnoxious 'true believer' phase (still!) on the P Bass thing. Really turned my entire approach upside down. At the moment (OK, over the last year or two:p) I'm unfortunately a bit like the guy who discovered religion and wants to 'share' my newfound 'truth' with everyone:D
 
#390
KJung said:
I'm unfortunately in that obnoxious 'true believer' phase (still!) on the P Bass thing. Really turned my entire approach upside down. At the moment (OK, over the last year or two:p) I'm unfortunately a bit like the guy who discovered religion and wants to 'share' my newfound 'truth' with everyone:D
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There's a reason why that bass has been so popular over the years! If you want a great, no fuss no muss sound, the P is really hard to beat.

Among many other reasons, I think that a lot of people overlook them because there are many newer designs out there that just must be better than a plain ol' P. I know I certainly did.
 
#391
I too like my bass to cvoer any genre f music, and let my hands make the necessary changes to fit the song. I personally don't care for P basses in general, I have heard Pino's recorded and it was killer, live however, I heard mud. I play MTD's and from first glimpse you may think "modern" tone. I play every genre of music under the sun with my bass, and it fits. For example, last night, I played in a pit band for 3 plays. The play called for James Bond, big band music, folk, R&B, jazz and the jingle for Sports Center. The producer of the plays as well as the sound guys told me my bass sounded incredible. I didn't touch the amp all night (TecAmp Black Jag 900). I played through REDDI DI. I barely touched the Eq on the bass. I varied where I played over the pickups, sometimes I played over the fingerboard; those adjustments changed the tone. If we spend more time learning how to use the instruments we have, we might overcome GAS, and see that, with exceptions, our tone is really "in our hands."
 
#393
Virgil said:
I too like my bass to cvoer any genre f music, and let my hands make the necessary changes to fit the song. I personally don't care for P basses in general, I have heard Pino's recorded and it was killer, live however, I heard mud. I play MTD's and from first glimpse you may think "modern" tone. I play every genre of music under the sun with my bass, and it fits. For example, last night, I played in a pit band for 3 plays. The play called for James Bond, big band music, folk, R&B, jazz and the jingle for Sports Center. The producer of the plays as well as the sound guys told me my bass sounded incredible. I didn't touch the amp all night (TecAmp Black Jag 900). I played through REDDI DI. I barely touched the Eq on the bass. I varied where I played over the pickups, sometimes I played over the fingerboard; those adjustments changed the tone. If we spend more time learning how to use the instruments we have, we might overcome GAS, and see that, with exceptions, our tone is really "in our hands."
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Pino's tone gives P Bass's a bad reputation. Wonderful player, awful live tone... pure mud. That is not at all what a P Bass has to wound like.

And yes, we all can vary the tonality with our technique and hand placement;). That is part of it for sure. And yes, any decent player can play any instrument and rig and get the job done for the most part.
 
#394
KJung said:
Pino's tone gives P Bass's a bad reputation. Wonderful player, awful live tone... pure mud. That is not at all what a P Bass has to wound like.

And yes, we all can vary the tonality with our technique and hand placement;). That is part of it for sure. And yes, any decent player can play any instrument and rig and get the job done for the most part.
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Doesn't Pino tune down a half step? Not sure that factors in, but just askin'
 
#395
GRoberts said:
Doesn't Pino tune down a half step? Not sure that factors in, but just askin'
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I have no idea. What I do know is that he rolls the passive tone control way back, and uses old flats. That sounds just awful to me personally. But again, he gets better gigs than me:D

I did hear him live with Herbie Hancock (subbing for Tal), and it really did sound awful. Pure mush, no note definition at all.

That is a pretty good example of how 'it is NOT all in the hands', since he is one of the greatest pop bassists alive IMO. I wanted to run up on stage and turn that passive tone control up, but alas, I didn't. It wasn't the venue either, since the bassist before him sounded magnificent.
 
#398
I wanted to thanks Ken gain for posting those clips on Youtube featuring the CN212. Played my first gig with it last night. Just awesome. It gets better though. 2nd floor. No elevator. Everyone in the band is bumming having to schlep up two flights of stairs. I breeze up the stairs "one handing" that CN212 like it was a single Aguilar GS112. AND, the cabinet kicks major booty. Super punchy.

Haven't been so damn giddy about a new cabinet in years. :hyper:
 
#399
There are a lot of great P tones out there. Somewhat amazing considering the simplicity of the instrument. My fave has always been Larry Taylor's like on Canned Heat Boogie on the original Woodstock LP.

Back to your regularly scheduled Berg discussion.
 
#400
I got to play an outdoor venue with my CN212 yesterday. It was a large pier with pinic tables throughout, then an indoor bar with an open roof seating area as well.

I had my Sadowsky PJ5 going into a GK MB500 with the aforementioned CN212. No PA support. It was cranking! I had nice clear punchy fat bass throughout the entire venue. I was really surprised to hear from a few of our regulars how good we sounded a different areas of the venue, including the roof seating area what was a solid 150ft away and one story up.
 
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