New Classic Tube Amps?

[Nightlyraider]

The Mesa 400/400+ are definitely in the competition. While discontinued, there are quite a few of them around and I'd bet there is nearly always one available in our classifieds here.

As to where all the current manufacturers are, they cannot really compete in the modern market. This is the downfall of economies of scale: very few people (in the market sense) are interested in an all tube head, so very few companies see money in it. Ampeg, Peavy, Behringer/Bugera (shudder), Fender and Eden all market their tube amps still so far as I know; which leaves a very competitive market for anyone interested in entering the foray with anything new. We do have alot of posters here arguing the case for tube amps; but this is an eclectic group of bass/gear nuts. The general spending public (AKA the only thing big companies consider) is interested in something completely different from whats right.

 

[Nightlyraider]

P.S. Do you sleep Jimmy? I think in a year here there hasn't been a time you aren't posting!

 

[JimmyM]

it's not THAT late

 

[Deluge Of Sound]

most of those "overpriced" hand assembled tube amps cost no more than the orange ad200.

That's once you factor in shipping/import tax, I believe.

Of course, I could be wrong.

 

[MAMMOTHvolume]

There a thread somewhere here about Bear Amps and why he choose to design a hybrid instead of a full tube. Genz Benz was asked the same question - answer - start up expenses, build costs, quality control, tube tolerances, etc. That's why we won't find very many "new" tube manufacturers out there. Ampeg and Orange have already worked out all the bugs - that's why they're the leaders. The rest are over priced "hand" assembled boutique models.

what? orange and ampeg amps are made to a budget with generally borderline components most boutique amps will actually be hand wired on turret boards etc and use a much higher level of quality of components for the same or less.

 

[edbass]

There a thread somewhere here about Bear Amps and why he choose to design a hybrid instead of a full tube. Genz Benz was asked the same question - answer - start up expenses, build costs, quality control, tube tolerances, etc. That's why we won't find very many "new" tube manufacturers out there. Ampeg and Orange have already worked out all the bugs - that's why they're the leaders. The rest are over priced "hand" assembled boutique models.

Hmmm… Let’s try to assess this from an actual value for your money standpoint.
I think pictures will tell the story best; look closely at the build quality and sturdiness of high use component mounting. Regularly physically used components; such as tube sockets, knobs, jacks, etc. can take a significant beating in regular use, or during accident miss use.
A flexible wire “buffer” can sometimes make the difference between a broken cord plug and an inoperable “back to the shop” amplifier in cases such as accidental guitar/bass/road case smacking plugged in jack scenarios.
Or, the difference between just needing to straighten bent pins on a noval preamp tube vs. snapping one of the circuit connections off of a socket and needing amplifier surgery performed.
Even just regular use; from a heat fatigue and vibration standpoint, a gigging amp lives in a pretty hostile environment.

So, here’s a hand built turret board amp, using top quality components, hand built on a bench by an artisan. Regular use components mounted to a steel chassis, and connected to the circuit by wire;

Here’s a PCB board production amp, mass produced as cheaply as possible with pots, tube sockets, etc. soldered directly to fragile PCBs, to keep production costs down...
and of course profit margins up.

The list price on the less powerful factory built mass produced amp is actually $907 higher than the list price on the “overpriced hand assembled” amp, however in fairness amps are street priced within $100 of each other.

So, here’s my question;
Between these two, which one is the “overpriced” amp?

 

[Nightlyraider]

So, here’s my question;
Between these two, which one is the “overpriced” amp?

While intelligent folks care about component/build quality, the masses clearly don't. Features, names, and slogans are all that matter. Obviously the Reeve's is far and away the nicer amp, but there is little wonder as to which amp sells more...

This is the same reason why car commercials focus on MP3 players and Bluetooth without even mentioning an engine (unless it's green!)

 

[Lazarus.Bird]

http://www.bassnw.com/images/Amp Heads/Verellen Meat Smoke Front.jpg

))

 

[Din Of Win]

Has anyone had experiences with Bad Cat amps?

They have (or will have?) a new 300w Tube bass amp, called 'The Beast' http://www.badcatamps.com/index.html


Kurt, the guitarist of the band, Converge, uses a Bad Cat on guitar and it sounds awesome... i'm interested to see how it will translate to bass....

 

[D.M.N.]

Funny, never seen a sadowsky in an arena, but there are plenty of Ampegs. I think you have it wrong: Ampeg is the pinnacle.

I apologize to all the Ampeg people out there, but I cannot agree with that. Not at all.
I will concede that it obviously the most widespread and is all around an excellent amplifier regarding price vs. quality vs. availability, but I think that is the key there: availability. It is a great amp, but it is also WIDELY available. I think if those Reeves were available on the same scale as an SVT (though not realistically possible due to the work and time that goes into them, meaning a lower output and production rate), people would be saying something entirely different as far as regarding the SVT as the pinnacle. I'm not trying to dig at the SVT, I do like them, but I think it's a bit much to say it's the Pinnacle.

Personally, I'd save that honor for old Sunns and Hiwatts/Reeves AD201 based designs.

 

[BbbyBld]

Hmmm… Let’s try to assess this from an actual value for your money standpoint.
I think pictures will tell the story best; look closely at the build quality and sturdiness of high use component mounting. Regularly physically used components; such as tube sockets, knobs, jacks, etc. can take a significant beating in regular use, or during accident miss use.
A flexible wire “buffer” can sometimes make the difference between a broken cord plug and an inoperable “back to the shop” amplifier in cases such as accidental guitar/bass/road case smacking plugged in jack scenarios.
Or, the difference between just needing to straighten bent pins on a noval preamp tube vs. snapping one of the circuit connections off of a socket and needing amplifier surgery performed.
Even just regular use; from a heat fatigue and vibration standpoint, a gigging amp lives in a pretty hostile environment.

So, here’s a hand built turret board amp, using top quality components, hand built on a bench by an artisan. Regular use components mounted to a steel chassis, and connected to the circuit by wire;

Here’s a PCB board production amp, mass produced as cheaply as possible with pots, tube sockets, etc. soldered directly to fragile PCBs, to keep production costs down...
and of course profit margins up.

The list price on the less powerful factory built mass produced amp is actually $907 higher than the list price on the “overpriced hand assembled” amp, however in fairness amps are street priced within $100 of each other.

So, here’s my question;
Between these two, which one is the “overpriced” amp?

My money's on the Orange in a shaker table/vibration test. I'll bet the Orange has better consistency from amp to amp also. Chances are, the Orange is generally more safe since it is built under commercial product safety guidelines.

most boutique amps will actually be hand wired on turret boards etc and use a much higher level of quality of components for the same or less.

More expensive parts, yes. Higher quality, better performance parts not so 90% of the time in my experience. Most boutique amp builders peddle "mojo parts" that look pretty mounted to turret boards (which is fine if that's what you want). The other 10% actually use truly high quality parts.

The boutique amp shown has fairly good parts, but several Peavey tube amps use the same grade of parts or higher depending on the part.

 

[tilde]

What about Electric? I know they're not strictly bass amps but they're absolutely monstrous sounding and built to last.

 

[rockstarbassist]

I've been hearing about the Diezel 400W for forever. Still not released yet, though.

The 400+ has been my salvation though. Don't know as far as tube maps go that I'd get something else, actually.

It's an interesting question, but as others have said it's all about costs and materials. Unless you know someone awesome and they can do a one-off from an old Marshall or Bassman.

 

[bb5000]

The Weber stuff seems really cool, but the AB200 head has been "out of stock" for at least three years... Does it actually exist? I would love to order one.

I ordered my AB200 in late November -09, got it delivered in January and completed the kit in February...the last tweaks were made during the summer..don't know why it says "out of stock" now, but it seems that the transformers for it are "out of stock" as well..

That said, the Weber MyWatt 200 and 400 are Hiwatt clones from Germany and not to be confused with Ted Weber's AB200. Different Weber... Invalid Link Removed

 

[KramerBassFan]

I want to build a 4x KT88 amp from Mercury Transformers.... Then again, i can barely use either of my 100w heads, so whats the use.

 

[seamonkey]

Even companies like Peavey find it hard to get quality, counterfeit free, components.
Imagine how far down food chain Boutiques are.
I can imagine they're getting all the parts from the pile the big companies reject.

 

[KramerBassFan]

Even companies like Peavey find it hard to get quality, counterfeit free, components.
Imagine how far down food chain Boutiques are.
I can imagine they're getting all the parts from the pile the big companies reject.

Why do you say that?

Whats your reasoning, i.e. do you have experience in this field, or is that just an assumption?

 

[Nightlyraider]

Even companies like Peavey find it hard to get quality, counterfeit free, components.
Imagine how far down food chain Boutiques are.
I can imagine they're getting all the parts from the pile the big companies reject.

Either that or they buy from completely different suppliers.

Dollars and cents are what matter to the mass producers. They buy on the cheap and get what they pay for.

A boutique builder hand wiring an amp buys piles of individual resistors and the like, while the big company actually farms out the fabrication of their PCB chipset to China or Taiwan or other Asian country X. While the little guy is actually building an amp; the big companies are plugging together a few prefab circuit boards and calling it good.

 

[Chef]

jimmy:
don't hold it in man. let it out.
keeping your feelings hidden deep inside will kill ya...

me, i'm sticking with ampeg. always worked great for me in the past, works great for me now, will work great in the future as long as whatever parent company that owns it doesn't hire a soulless idiot like jaime engen to decimate it again.

 

[agedhorse]

Even companies like Peavey find it hard to get quality, counterfeit free, components.
Imagine how far down food chain Boutiques are.
I can imagine they're getting all the parts from the pile the big companies reject.

I suspect that in some cases this may indeed be true.