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Double Bass New EA VL208?

#22
macmrkt said:
I'm intrigued from an audiophile standpoint about the theoretical advantages and disadvantages of a 3way bass cabinet versus a 2way.
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Well, keep in mind that you have more drivers (and more weight) with the 3-way, and the crossover is going to be at least twice as complex and twice as expensive, and possibly moreso. Again, more weight (and weight seems to be more of an issue of late). And then there's the part about having the mids in their own internal enclosure...

macmrkt said:
I wonder if audiophile concepts apply to a bass cabinet such as point source and the preference of a 1 way over a 2way, or a 2way over a 3way...
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To an extent, these concepts apply. But, keep in mind that for the home audiophile, you are dealing with a fixed location, and normally a fairly confined "sweet spot." In the live sound reproduction, you are trying to fill a much more broad area with sound. So, you are less likely to worry about how all of the sound waves arrive at a few listeners' sets of ears, and more worried about getting your sound out on a fairly even level to the entire crowd.

Tom.
 
#24
I agree with the previous sentiments as well. I couldn't care less how much it weighed or how big it is. For that matter I'm not really all that concerned with how much it costs either.

As it is I had to have the two used ones I bought shipped from Montreal to Columbus Ohio. Took forever to find them. I haven't seen any available since then anywhere. They cost me more than I would have had to pay for them new. I think they are worth every penny. Frankly I'd have rather given all that money to EA and would have done so if they were still selling a cabinet for Double Bass that sounded that good.

Tone and how it is expressed on the stages I play are my primary priorities. If someone can build a better sounding speaker for the Double Bass than the Vl 208 I'll buy it. If not, well I'll stick with what i've got.
 
#25
EAJohn said:
It seems that I get monthly request for a VL-208.

I find it a little hard to justify producing a 2x8 cabinet since our NL-210 is 4 lbs lighter than the VL-208 and is just a little larger( NL-210:22.5"H x 17"W x 15"D vs VL-208:18.5"H x 17.5"W x 13.5"D). The NL-210 moves more air and plays louder.

If EA were to produce a new 2x8 cabinet then it would have the following parameters: M-Line configuration, Neo magnet, Kevlar woofer cones, 19.0"H x 15.6"W x 12.5"D(smaller than a VL-208), projected weight should be under 30 lbs(VL-208 is 48 lbs).

I expect the 8" neo drivers should be available sometime this summer. Prototypes will be made if the driver meets our requirements. The decision to market the NM-208 will be based upon dealer reaction at the Trade shows.
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It goes without saying that John knows more about designing and building speaker systems, and running his own business than most or all of us. However, I should like to echo Bruce's comments about "the sound" for Double Bass, and the fact that the 8" drivers as well as the dedicated midrange drivers seem to provide the quick response and smooth clarity that so many of us are after. Again, I don't know squat about these things, but I have to wonder about "dealer reaction at trade shows" unless the dealer in question is (ALLHAIL)Bob Gollihur. I don't know of any other dealers out there who are as in tune with the specific needs of this relatively small niche of customers.

So, a couple of questions for anyone who might know:

1. What does "M-Line" refer to?
2. What are the pros and cons of a 3-way system? I was under the impression that pro = sounds better, con = more complicated and expensive to build. Is there more to it? I see tombowlus touched on this, but if he would like to elaborate or anyone else chime in. Maybe if the neo drivers have a more pronounced midrange it will eliminate the need for the 5-inchers?
 
#26
T-Bal said:
It goes without saying that John knows more about designing and building speaker systems, and running his own business than most or all of us. However, I should like to echo Bruce's comments about "the sound" for Double Bass, and the fact that the 8" drivers as well as the dedicated midrange drivers seem to provide the quick response and smooth clarity that so many of us are after. Again, I don't know squat about these things, but I have to wonder about "dealer reaction at trade shows" unless the dealer in question is (ALLHAIL)Bob Gollihur. I don't know of any other dealers out there who are as in tune with the specific needs of this relatively small niche of customers.

So, a couple of questions for anyone who might know:

1. What does "M-Line" refer to?
2. What are the pros and cons of a 3-way system? I was under the impression that pro = sounds better, con = more complicated and expensive to build. Is there more to it? I see tombowlus touched on this, but if he would like to elaborate or anyone else chime in. Maybe if the neo drivers have a more pronounced midrange it will eliminate the need for the 5-inchers?
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1. M-Line is a Transmission Line configuration that we use where the exit points are at the sides of the cabinet. Our NM-410 is also a M-Line cabinet. Our previous designs had their exit points at the front of the cabinet.

2. The reason why the VL series of cabinets are 3-Way designs is that at the time we did not have a woofer that had the response profile we were looking for. We had to add the midranges in order to boost the response between 800 Hz and 2,000 Hz. The NM-208 will have a response profile that is very similiar to that of the VL-208 but will be a two way design. It is a tedious process whereby you must select a cone formulation, cone profile and front suspension to get your desired response. Computer modelling has helped a great deal but it takes several iterations to tweak in the last dB where you want it.

John Dong/Euphonic Audio Inc
 
#29
You know, I was thinking about this as I was getting ready for work this morning (obsessed, I know), and on the topic of simple designs versus more complicated (e.g., 3-way enclosure) designs, it is interesting to look at the Wizzy cab. From outward appearances, this cab is almost like the anti-VL-208. It is lighter than it looks, one driver (with a wizzer cone), no crossover, and 4 ohm. You'd expect this to be a totally different animal from the VL-208, but in many ways, its sound is reminiscent of the VL-208. Don't get me wrong, they do not sound like identical twins, but they do sound like at least cousins. The overall tonal balance, and tight, smooth articulate sound are certainly in the same ballpark. The VL-208 goes deeper, and also goes higher, and the Wizzy is a bit more warm on the whole, but it amazes me that so much of what I love about the VL-208 can be found in the Wizzy.

What is my point? Well, on the one hand, I guess I am recommending that people check out the Wizzy, if they haven't already (two of them with an iAMP 500/800 are stellar!). But my other thought was that for anyone who might doubt how close EA can come to the sound of a no holds barred, three-way design in a new, more simplified design, the success that they have had with the (seemingly) super simple Wizzy is certainly grounds for optimism!

Later, Tom.
 
#30
tombowlus said:
You know, I was thinking about this as I was getting ready for work this morning (obsessed, I know), and on the topic of simple designs versus more complicated (e.g., 3-way enclosure) designs, it is interesting to look at the Wizzy cab. From outward appearances, this cab is almost like the anti-VL-208. It is lighter than it looks, one driver (with a wizzer cone), no crossover, and 4 ohm. You'd expect this to be a totally different animal from the VL-208, but in many ways, its sound is reminiscent of the VL-208. Don't get me wrong, they do not sound like identical twins, but they do sound like at least cousins. The overall tonal balance, and tight, smooth articulate sound are certainly in the same ballpark. The VL-208 goes deeper, and also goes higher, and the Wizzy is a bit more warm on the whole, but it amazes me that so much of what I love about the VL-208 can be found in the Wizzy.

What is my point? Well, on the one hand, I guess I am recommending that people check out the Wizzy, if they haven't already (two of them with an iAMP 500/800 are stellar!). But my other thought was that for anyone who might doubt how close EA can come to the sound of a no holds barred, three-way design in a new, more simplified design, the success that they have had with the (seemingly) super simple Wizzy is certainly grounds for optimism!

Later, Tom.
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What I notice about these cab's is how relaxed they are with the low notes. That's my word ... relaxed ,, makes it a pleasure (read: joy) to play through one. The audience responds "we can really hear you [distinctly]" which speaks to the midrange, too.
 
#34
Taking Mike's number as serious for a moment, a casual count in this thread puts us at 12 orders among the 33 responses (including repeaters). With hundreds that've looked at this thread, but not responded, maybe there's a few more. If we went public on talkbass.com's home page, with permission of course, (maybe even calling it the www.talkbass.com special edition?) who knows where the count would end up. How would an NM208 fit in, I'm not sure.

Now for proof I'm spending way too much time on talkbass, since 2005 began, the speaker cabinet threads in this forum that've attracted the most views have been those involving 8" speaker cabs, mostly the VL208.
 
#37
Thanks Mike for the tip. I think I'll be getting it - just spoke to them. They said you were there this morning. I guess I was the first to call.

This makes me wonder...several industry folks have mentioned to me that the market for these dual 8" wonders is vocal, but small. The companies think they are great, but they don't fly off the shelves. I wonder what that means...
 

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