Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Double Bass NEW Euphonic Audio iAMP Doubler
- Thread starter peterpalmieri
- Start date
Peter,
Mike Dimm came onto the "doubling amp" thread about a week ago and showed us the doubler minus the EA logo. I'm kinda surprised that you didn't see it. I had a brief email chat with Gary at EA. It dose look very interesting.
I had a hand in helping with the design. Of many cool features, I really like the variable phase control. Phase switches are typically in phase or 180 degrees out of phase. This allows much more flexability in combining a piezo with a mic, or another piezo. I just did a month in Europe with the Micro and I was doubling on electric and upright. Granted , I had the Micro cranked at its limit, but it sounded great the whole time. I really MUCH prefer the sound of EA amps on electric over some of the amps mentioned. The new one should have just enough power that it might be hard for me to find a good enough reason to bring out the Iamp800 on a slab gig.
I hadn't seen the other thread about it Ric thanks and Mike for the update.
Doc I'm not sure why you are mentioning the 2.6 increase?
Well, I sure didn't mention it to be critical in any way. Folks are not generally used to thinking in terms of decibels. In case anyone thought that the change from 300 to 550 watts would provide some functionally large increase in power and/or loudness, I wanted to point out that it's only a matter of 2.6 dB which, very roughly speaking, would increase loudness by about 20%.
I'm really curious about this circuit. Phase switches, as you say, merely invert the waveform resulting in a 180 degree "phase-shift" at all frequencies. In order to actually vary the phase across a wide band of frequencies by a constant number of degrees requires either the use of digital signal-processing (DSP) or a rather highly sophisticated analog circuit. There are simpler ways to, more-or-less, vary phase over a limited band of frequencies but even then phase-shift varies as a function of frequency. Perhaps I should just give Gary a call at EA.
Edit-- Just sent a nice email off to Gary.
I'd like a 2.6 db increase in my salary next year. 
I'm sure Gary would be happy to chat about the new amp. Always enjoyed talking to him when I was importing EA to the frozen North.
I do like the idea of this much power in a small package. A 500 watt Micro is a cool development. Maybe I'll go back to EA.
I'm sure Gary would be happy to chat about the new amp. Always enjoyed talking to him when I was importing EA to the frozen North.
I do like the idea of this much power in a small package. A 500 watt Micro is a cool development. Maybe I'll go back to EA.
The increase in power is only one thing - the increase in headroom is quite another especially when you are dealing with the transient attacks of a DB.
BTW, The 550 watt Micro will retail at the same price point as the original Micro and the Doubler will retail at about $75.00 more than the Micro
Mike
I am to be digging this head vedddy much. (spoken in my best broken Greek accent)
Santa....you out there???
Santa....you out there???
Right there, we have, IMO, the total statement on EA amps in general. They sound great, but don't you feel a little funny with the master knob at 3:00 or 4:00 all night long? Ever get the feeling that there just isn't another gear there for you?
I love the way EA amps sound, though. The one I had did find its limiter a little too much when running 2 ohms - perhaps never an issue for DB. On a transient, it would just drop with no warning, cut out for about 5 seconds, then come back. It did not inspire confidence, and I stayed away from 2 ohms after it happened a few times. I never experienced the issue at 4 ohms.
I will say that the Markbass F1 has a very similar tone to the i800 I had before, perhaps with a little less low end. It's 550 watts too, and only 4.5 pounds. This year, they've released an F500 version with a sweepable mid, which might make it an even better DB rig.
Unless the fundamental circuit design or the manner in which it has been spec'ed has changed, the power available during transients will increase by the same 2.6 dB. Strictly speaking, headroom will not change at all. It's important to be careful about the definition of headroom. That specification refers to the amount by which an amplifier can exceed its continuous power rating for a short period. You can read my somewhat comprehensive post on the topic here.
If we assume that EA has rated the old and new Micro in the same fashion and that the design of the output stage is essentially the same, then the continuous power rating will increase by 2.6 dB between the old and new models. The headroom in dB would be identical resulting in the transient power capability also increasing by 2.6 dB.
For example, suppose the old version, at 300 watts, has 1.5 dB of headroom. That would mean that the amp would deliver 424 watts during the standard transient conditions.
The new version, at 550 watts, and assuming the same overall design, would also have 1.5 dB of headroom, yielding 777 watts during standard transient conditions. 777 vs. 424 is 2.6 dB.
Given that power has been increased for the same price is a win all around! None of what I've posted regarding these dB measures was meant to be taken as an opinion regarding the EA amps. They are facts and when deciding whether to change or upgrade your amplifier, it's good to know just what these numbers mean. As I'm known for saying, "Think SPL, not watts." I also own, use, and am very happy with an EA iamp200.
Doc don't take this the wrong way, but many non EE bass players refer to headroom as being able to do the majority of their playing at a level below what the maximum usable volume is. I think your getting way more technical then it needs to be. Again - transients, exceeding continuous power rating?
Can this thing get louder if I want it too? that's it.Louder is louder, you can measure Watts, SPL or DBs but my ears tell me that a 550 watt amp is louder then a 300 watt amp.
For the record I wear 15db musicians plugs during most gigs, it's a little quieter and my ears don't ring when I get home. I am glad someone did the math so they work right.
Quick, Pete, duck! There's a lecture on psychoacoustics and the qualities of an amplifier that contribute to perceptions of loudness coming right at you!
(And I've been hit with it before, so I know...actually quite informative.)
If this were true, then plugging your bass directly into a 1200 watt power amp would really be loud. However this is not case since a typical piezo pickup doesn't have a hot enough signal to drive a power amp to anywhere near full output. Generally speaking, an amplifier's gain has more to do with perceived loudness and power has everything to do with headroom before clipping. Usually an amplifier with more gain will seem louder than another amp with less gain, even if the amp with less gain has a little more headroom.
Quick, Pete, duck! There's a lecture on psychoacoustics and the qualities of an amplifier that contribute to perceptions of loudness coming right at you!
(And I've been hit with it before, so I know...actually quite informative.)
I like Doc and some of the other "nerds" no question they know what they're talking about and I don't. Honestly I've read most of this stuff already...Bill Fitz etc.
All I'm sayin' is "if it sounds good it is good".
Yes, and here it is. I will try not to "lecture" in the negative sense but, rather inform. What I'm trying to do here is to help people evaluate whether they should spend their hard-earned cash. That's true whether we're talking about EA amps or not. It goes for any amps. I really like EA's products and they are a very receptive and helpful company.
So, let's get to it. Ok, the strict definition of headroom, in common terms, is how much extra punch your amp can deliver over and above what it can do continuously.
Many people refer to headroom as how much they have "in reserve" over and above the level they usually want to play at. Yes, I get it. Given that concept, how much you have in reserve will depend on the overall power rating of the amp (300, 550, whatever) and it's headroom in terms of how much it can stretch, if you will.
So considering all of this, if you have two amplifiers that are otherwise identical and one has a rating of 300 watts and the other has a rating of 550 watts, what does that mean to a "non-EE" double-bassist? Your ears and brain care about ratios-- decibels. The 2.6 dB you'll get by going from 300 to 550 watts is meager. It will be just a kiss louder in the end.
Now, given Mike's info that EA will be selling the 550-watt Micro for the same price as the old 300-watt version, it's a no-brainer! Yup, it's worth the extra cost, which is zero! If you have a 300-watt Micro, should you sell it at a loss and buy a new one just to get the extra wattage? Well, for 2.6 dB, I'd say no. Should you pop for the new version will all the cool features and the "doubling" capabilities? Well, sure, if that's what's important to you. My only point is that the increase in power shouldn't really be the draw. In the end though, EA is basically giving that increase to you for nothing.
Straightforward enough? I hope so.
So, let's get to it. Ok, the strict definition of headroom, in common terms, is how much extra punch your amp can deliver over and above what it can do continuously.
Many people refer to headroom as how much they have "in reserve" over and above the level they usually want to play at. Yes, I get it. Given that concept, how much you have in reserve will depend on the overall power rating of the amp (300, 550, whatever) and it's headroom in terms of how much it can stretch, if you will.
So considering all of this, if you have two amplifiers that are otherwise identical and one has a rating of 300 watts and the other has a rating of 550 watts, what does that mean to a "non-EE" double-bassist? Your ears and brain care about ratios-- decibels. The 2.6 dB you'll get by going from 300 to 550 watts is meager. It will be just a kiss louder in the end.
Now, given Mike's info that EA will be selling the 550-watt Micro for the same price as the old 300-watt version, it's a no-brainer! Yup, it's worth the extra cost, which is zero! If you have a 300-watt Micro, should you sell it at a loss and buy a new one just to get the extra wattage? Well, for 2.6 dB, I'd say no. Should you pop for the new version will all the cool features and the "doubling" capabilities? Well, sure, if that's what's important to you. My only point is that the increase in power shouldn't really be the draw. In the end though, EA is basically giving that increase to you for nothing.
Straightforward enough? I hope so.
