New Head: Valkyrie from Baer Amps... Thoughts?

[KJung]

+1 The chassis is 13" deep behind the rack ears, which should fit into most shallow rack cases. It depends on the brand of case, but most are around 14". That's as small as we could go and still get everything in there. Also, when you are taking about almost 900watts at 2ohms, there is a lot of heat being generated by the transformer and power amp. You can only pack things so tight and still maintain good airflow over the components.

FYI, rack bags are a major party foul with this amp!

Excellent. I remember my Glock Heartrock just fitting the SKB standard rack (without extending into the lid). 13" deep behind the rack ears is just about what that one was.

+1... rack bags with an amp of this size, weight, and quality would be a mistake.

 

[mothra2]

Roger, it's really nice to see someone building an "heirloom" quality piece that will actually be capable/worth repairing 5-10 years from now. Too much throwaway junk being produced nowdays IMO. Indeed the parts costs really add up, almost shockingly so, but good for you for sticking to your guns on component quality.

+1000

 

[R Baer]

...+1... rack bags with an amp of this size, weight, and quality would be a mistake.

+1 I don't think I would trust a rack bag with a 25lb. head, but mostly it's a ventilation issue. The Valkyrie pulls air in the front vents and a vent on the left side and exhaust the heated air out an opening on the right hand side. Maintaining proper ventilation with a 2ohm head is critical and many of the soft rack bags don't have a rigid enough frame to keep the material away from the chassis. We also use an all aluminum chassis to help dissipate the heat, so areas around the transformer and power section can get a might toasty when the amp is cranked up. Much safer and better protection to use a hard rack case.

 

[monsterthompson]

Liquid-cooled option for an up-charge?

 

[R Baer]

Liquid-cooled option for an up-charge?

Actually, I have been working on just such an upgrade. I expect it to completely dominate the bass amplifier industry once this becomes available. Who needs a wimpy class D amp, when you can take this to every gig?

 

[kobass]

Excellent work Roger! Obviously, you have your finger on the pulse of today's working bass player! Kudos, sir!

Actually, I have been working on just such an upgrade. I expect it to completely dominate the bass amplifier industry once this becomes available. Who needs a wimpy class D amp, when you can take this to every gig?

 

[monsterthompson]

Two please.

 

[nutdog]

Actually, I have been working on just such an upgrade. I expect it to completely dominate the bass amplifier industry once this becomes available. Who needs a wimpy class D amp, when you can take this to every gig?

I think I just got a hangover.

 

[monsterthompson]

+1 I don't think I would trust a rack bag with a 25lb. head, but mostly it's a ventilation issue. The Valkyrie pulls air in the front vents and a vent on the left side and exhaust the heated air out an opening on the right hand side. Maintaining proper ventilation with a 2ohm head is critical and many of the soft rack bags don't have a rigid enough frame to keep the material away from the chassis. We also use an all aluminum chassis to help dissipate the heat, so areas around the transformer and power section can get a might toasty when the amp is cranked up. Much safer and better protection to use a hard rack case.

this is the one i'm housing my M6 in, and it has a fairly sturdy frame and solid side panels to keep the material away from the vents. i'm not trying to be difficult and argumentative on this point, just pointing out that some rack-bags may be better than others.
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edit - i'm also only pushing my 2ohm-capable head at 8ohms, for living room to rehearsal space levels. i've noticed some warmth at times, but nothing major. if i start working things harder, i may seek other, safer options. an ounce of prevention or a pound of cure

 

[R Baer]

This type of "soft case" is fine, as they have a rigid internal frame, or sides. As long as they don't block the ventilation at all, your'e good with one of these.

 

[LeonD]

Question for Roger. If I remember correctly, you have some first hand experience with Mesa's Walkabout head.

I understand that they are very different designs but how does your new amp compare to the Walkabout both in sound and feel?

 

[Chef]

Interesting question.....

 

[Ryan L.]

OK, having now finally taken the time to read this entire thread, I can honestly say that for the first time in a very long time, I have SERIOUS gas for an amp.

I honestly like everything I have read about it, including Roger sticking to his guns in the quality department.

Color me VERY interested in this when it comes out!

Oh, and the ML212 cabinet looks VERY interesting as well.

 

[Neil]

OK, having now finally taken the time to read this entire thread, I can honestly say that for the first time in a very long time, I have SERIOUS gas for an amp.

I honestly like everything I have read about it, including Roger sticking to his guns in the quality department.

Color me VERY interested in this when it comes out!

Oh, and the ML212 cabinet looks VERY interesting as well.

DITTO AND DITTO !!!

 

[R Baer]

Question for Roger. If I remember correctly, you have some first hand experience with Mesa's Walkabout head.

I understand that they are very different designs but how does your new amp compare to the Walkabout both in sound and feel?

Hmmm... kind of like comparing strawberry jam to grape jam. Well, first off the Walkabout always has 2 tubes in the circuit path. One of the downfalls of the WA, IMO is that it is a fairly low powered amp, so getting a decent volume out of it requires you crank the both the input gain and master volume up. At this point, you are definitely into some tube fuzzyness. It can be a bit hard to do loud and clean with that amp. The Valkyrie's tube section is switchable, so the amp can deliver clean, all solid state tone, if that's what you are after. The tube section is controlled by the TUBE GAIN knob, so you can have a fairly clean tube sound and still crank the volume. Of course, there's also quite a difference in power between the two amps. The Walkabout is around 300watts @4ohms, while the Valkyrie is up over 650watts. IMO, the Valkyrie has a ton more in your face punch than the WA.

Tone wise, the Walkabout, doesn't have the most intuitive EQ layout, IMO. The mid is kind of a passive/active type thing and I've never been really sure where "flat" is. Also the treble has some interesting features, where it boost in one frequency range, but seems to cut in another. The Valkyrie's preamp is very flat, when all tone controls are centered. No built in mid cuts, or top end boost. I wouldn't say ruler flat, as we have a little low end mojo going on, but pretty darn close. Our engineer's background is in designing high end studio preamps, EQ's and compressors, so the amp has a really nice three dimensionality and clarity to the sound that most people would attribute more to a nice piece of studio gear rather than the typical bass amp pre that was designed to meet a certain "market friendly" price point.

The Walkabout is a really great amp, IMO, so the bottom line is that we are really just talking about different flavors, functionality and power here.

 

[smeet]

Is there a projected release date at this point?

 

[T. Alan Smith]

Hmmm... kind of like comparing strawberry jam to grape jam. Well, first off the Walkabout always has 2 tubes in the circuit path. One of the downfalls of the WA, IMO is that it is a fairly low powered amp, so getting a decent volume out of it requires you crank the both the input gain and master volume up. At this point, you are definitely into some tube fuzzyness. It can be a bit hard to do loud and clean with that amp. The Valkyrie's tube section is switchable, so the amp can deliver clean, all solid state tone, if that's what you are after. The tube section is controlled by the TUBE GAIN knob, so you can have a fairly clean tube sound and still crank the volume. Of course, there's also quite a difference in power between the two amps. The Walkabout is around 300watts @4ohms, while the Valkyrie is up over 650watts. IMO, the Valkyrie has a ton more in your face punch than the WA.

Tone wise, the Walkabout, doesn't have the most intuitive EQ layout, IMO. The mid is kind of a passive/active type thing and I've never been really sure where "flat" is. Also the treble has some interesting features, where it boost in one frequency range, but seems to cut in another. The Valkyrie's preamp is very flat, when all tone controls are centered. No built in mid cuts, or top end boost. I wouldn't say ruler flat, as we have a little low end mojo going on, but pretty darn close. Our engineer's background is in designing high end studio preamps, EQ's and compressors, so the amp has a really nice three dimensionality and clarity to the sound that most people would attribute more to a nice piece of studio gear rather than the typical bass amp pre that was designed to meet a certain "market friendly" price point.

The Walkabout is a really great amp, IMO, so the bottom line is that we are really just talking about different flavors, functionality and power here.

I need a towel.

 

[Snaxster]

The tube section uses a 12AX7 and a 12AU7. If you really wanted a screamer for metal, we could easily do a mod where the tube section is set to run with 2 12AX7's. Grab a couple ML212s and a pick and this rig would do just fine in a metal band.

Hello, Roger. I am late in discovering your Valkyrie amp. It looks like being really excellent. I wish you luck getting it to market, and every success.

As others have said here, I applaud your decision to design with sonic integrity as a primary objective. Also, I like your use of tubes in this circuit. Intuitively it reminds me of the Millennium TD-1 (though it is not an amp), rather than "hybrid" bass amps.

I am an [del]obsessive[/del] avid collector, researcher and user of vintage receiving tubes. 12AU7 variants are the heart of my collection, but for audio (home stereo, and instrument amps and processors) I also use 12AX7, 12AT7, 12AY7, 6SN7, 6SL7, and various output and rectifier tube types.

Three things about tubes in your Valkyrie:

1. Since you are a friend of Carey, and since I admire your work, I would like to help you source vintage tubes. I assume you are using modern tubes now. Once I know your price point and functional requirements (technical and subjective), I can suggest varieties of 12AU7 and 12AX7, and help you find quantities of them. Even if vintage 12AX7 turn out to be unaffordable, using vintage 12AU7 should be beneficial. If this interests you, please send me a PM.

2. While changing nothing else about the circuit design, if the 12AU7 and 12AX7 were replaced with 6SN7 and 6SL7 (via socket adapters), this amp would sound very different and differently great (think "1940s and 50s" instead of "1960s and 70s"). Not a practical option for gigging, this breadboard approach may be useful for recording studios. I'm just saying.

3. I feel sure that your engineer's use of a 12AU7 was based on deep understanding of that type's characteristics (the some 10 mA that can be drawn from its plate vs. 1.2 mA from 12AX7) and was very intentional. Kudos to them! Let me guess: the 12AU7 is last in line, just before the signal returns to the power section, right? Common in hi-fi applications, this approach should be perfect for bass guitar amplification. For those who haven't heard 12AU7, imagine (before distortion occurs) much greater depth, harmonic richness, spatial representation and dynamics, throughout the spectrum and right down to the lowest frequencies.

Although I now neither need a Valkyrie nor can afford one, I would buy one immediately if I could, sound unheard.

Best,

Snaxster

 

[R Baer]

Thanks for the tube info. The Valkyrie's tube circuit is a bit different than your usual hybrid bass amp. Picture it this way. The preamp is all solid state with a solid state power section. In between the two, you have a switchable, tube guitar amp, complete with an output transformer. It was really designed to give you a more of an "all tube amp like sound" than you typical get from just having a single 12AX7 in the preamp.

We are trying to keep the price point as low as possible, so the allocation of every dollar has to have a justification. In the context of our tube circuit, I just don't feel the return on investment is there for something like vintage tubes. Sure, you can hear some subtle differences between tubes in a critical listening environment, but live on stage, I just don't think the difference in our tube circuit, is worth the expense. Right now, I'm pretty happy with the tone we get from the new Tung-Sol tubes. Very open and clear sounding with a good tonal balance across the spectrum and no harshness in the top end. All around, these are pretty nice tubes, IMO.

 

[johnk_10]

i agree. i think that the tung-sol RI is the best of the new 12AX7's. the ones that i've used have no 'unsual' sonic characteristics when compared to my NOS ones.