- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,516
- 19,947
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
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New Head: Valkyrie from Baer Amps... Thoughts?
- Thread starter Hollow Man
- Start date
Keep in mind, computers are not typewriters. You don't have to hit "return" when you get to the right hand edge of the screen.
This is me. I need a rig that sounds great when playing with just acoustic instrumentalists. Believe me, that's not easy as most rigs just aren't geared that way. Even my Baby Blue and PJB rig are ultimately lacking in that special something that let's people know you're playing a BASS.
When I was checking out Roger's amp and speaker box, the big "now I get it" moment came when I a/b'd my Epifani UL112 and Roger's 12/6 box.
I've ranted for years about how most all of the newer style boxes with a speaker and tweeter never sound good at lower volume. Its just anemic and thin. They want to be pushed a little in order to get any balls. Having the 6in mid in Roger's box, and where he has it crossed over, I was able to get some punch and body from the notes at a pretty low volume. Again, this was done with a drummer playing brushes and light sticking. Of course we also checked the box out at much higher volume too.
Y'know, that's usually the first thing I ask, but in this case I knew I was just checking out prototypes that will change a bit before they come out. The covering on the boxes can change the price by up to hundreds of dollars.
My wonderful Bergantino AE210 is a wonderful box. Not cheap by any means and has the worst finish of any box I've ever owned. If Bergantino used a better material on his boxes, they'd be even MORE expensive.
I'll try to get a ballpark on specs and cost from Roger.
I took Tom's advice to ignore the edge of the screen. My posts are longer now, plus I'm more attractive to women, and I play better too. More sustain...not such short notes.
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,516
- 19,947
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
The covering is a real issue for us right now. The poly urea coating we are using is without a doubt the toughest covering available. The trade off (and there always is one) is the cost. Not only is the material itself is very expensive, but it requires the most expensive grade of poplar plywood. As it is, we are estimating the ML112 cabinet to be priced considerably higher than the 112 offerings from other companies, mostly due to the poly coating. Now if times were good like a few years back, I think players would be willing to pay top dollar for cabinet with the poly urea coating, but times are different and I'm not too sure. Switching to a carpet covering would lower the cost significantly and put the cabinets closer in price to the other top end products on the market.
I'm always open to the input of TB on this subject. I don't want to start yet another heated debate on rat fur vs Tolex, vs Duratex, but I would be interested in whether or not you guys are really willing to plunk down an extra $75 to $100 bucks for the poly urea coating.
rat fur doesn't seem to slow down sales of any other gear. dare say there would only be a few people to whom rat fur is a deal breaker.
Could you have it as an option on the cabinets, and leave it to your clients to determine whether it is worth the upcharge to them? I believe Acme is currently doing this with their Series II Low-B series. It's, I think, a $20 - $50 upcharge from the rat fur, depending on the size of cabinet.
$75-100 extra for better wood/covering is not a deal breaker for me. In fact, it's a deal enhancer.
BTW, I HATE rat fur.
BTW, I HATE rat fur.
Acme offers Duratex, and while it's a good product, the poly urea is in a totally different league. This is the same type of stuff they spray on sensitive rooms at the Pentagon as well as on the bottoms of Hummers to protect against IED's. It's that tough. It also involves more finish sanding and a specialized $50,000 machine to spray on. Superior coating = higher cost. The other problem is the actual cabinet wood itself. The poly urea requires us to use a very expensive grade of Italian poplar that has very smooth top veneer, similar to Baltic birch. Switching to carpet means the cabs can be made from a less expensive grade of poplar ply, which reduces the cost even further.
Personally, I love the look of a brand new, fresh out of the box Tolex covering, but that love very quickly fades aways with every new rip, tear and dent. The carpet simply takes abuse better.
By "discrete transistor" that means no integrated circuits in the preamp, correct? Interesting.... can you tell us a little more about the design philosophy of the preamp?
RB, use the expensive wood and indestructo finish on limited-edition runs with a special serial-number prefix. Make a short run once per quarter. But don't make the LE snobby -- instead, designate it for "rough service." People will pay extra for a box that'll look decent a year down the road after having gotten the crap kicked out of it every day. And the people who don't need that level of toughness won't have to pay for it; they can buy the standard trim.
You could even change the colors of the speaker grate and the amp's front-panel silkscreen to identify the "rough service" version.
You could even change the colors of the speaker grate and the amp's front-panel silkscreen to identify the "rough service" version.
Has anyone using the fearful cabs also played one of the baer prototypes? Im very familiar with the 18sound 6" driver and was wondering if they sound similer? The option of carpet or a bedliner covering would be nice but, the bedliner is a better option. The cab would have to be very overpriced to start with to make the extra covering cost a deal breaker.
I've played so many tweaks of these 12/6 cabs coming out of LDS... 18sound versus Faital mid driver, slightly different crossover points, slightly different low end tuning, front shelf porting, rear tube porting, etc., etc., etc. They all sound more similar than different.
As B String's nice review states, this design in any configuration is quite a different vibe from the standard 2 way 'mid driver with tweeter' execution.
The primary two things that define these types of cabs are (IMO and IME):
1) xmax... those Eminence LF drivers have that HUGE xmax that results in virtually no compression when you really dig in (slapping, aggressive pick playing, or just really 'hard' technique). These cabs stay VERY even and constant sounding through their entire volume range. Very impressive
2) Mid 'smoothness'.... this is a good thing on paper, and for many, a good thing in general. There is no hole between the top of the driver and the treble response... very smooth and even (and of course, nice off axis response). However, it is a different sounding upper midrange to my ear... smoother and creamier versus that 'slight distortion and break-up' you get when you push a more typical midrange driver. So, that can be good and bad, depending on the tone you are going after.
I can totally see this type of cab working wonderfully or Roger's whole philosophy of design and, from a few discussions we've had, with his tone goals and 'signature sound' goals.
Nice stuff! Not sure what mid driver Roger has decided on, but I kind of prefer that Faital 6.5 (a little lower SPL, a bit more extension into the upper treble, and a touch of a scoop in the lower treble that makes it nice and airy sounding up top) versus the 'mid hammer' of that 18sound mid driver. Pure IMO there. The Faital loaded 12/6's I've played (crossed over around 800hz) sounded a bit more 'hi fi' and extended up top than the more upper mid present 18Sound cabs.
IMO....!
That's what my impression was. From the description of tone and specs, I figured he was using faital drivers, which is good. Im torn between the two sounds. I too, like the upper mid growl of a 2-way but really like the dispersion of the 18sound driver in my lds 4x10, 1x6 cab. maybe the faital driver would be a good compromise?
Lately I've been thinking alot about having a cab built with a 3012lf and a large horn crossed at 1.2khZ. Kind of a pa speaker that works well for bass. Lots of dispersion and low end punch in a small package. Just thinking out loud.
