Appreciate all the work you are doing. Some of us in the spectator crowd are wondering if there will be a database and color-coded chart to help parse sonic permutations? Just kidding! (Sort of)
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Double Bass New Ischell Mic, Gear Junkie Review Coming
- Thread starter rickwolff
- Start date
Appreciate all the work you are doing. Some of us in the spectator crowd are wondering if there will be a database and color-coded chart to help parse sonic permutations? Just kidding! (Sort of)
A color-coded chart would be useful. But I'm only OCD, not anal-retentive, so I guess there won't be a chart.
You're right, though. There are a LOT of permutations. I added in one more tonight (which I haven't recorded and may not bother). I moved the sliders to cut from 180hz. It's apparently a very gentle curve - else it would be like turning the amp off. So presently, I have the Gray putty with the mic right over the soundpost. It took away a little of the 'Phat' low end but still sounds nice and very natural. I think I may start with this at tomorrows gig.
But speaking of Personality Types (or disorders), I was amused sometime back to take a personality inventory and found that I am an INFP (Introduction | Mediator (INFP) Personality | 16Personalities). Someone jokingly (but accurately} said INFP really stands for "I Never Find Perfection". Doesn't keep me from trying, though.
I've also done several of these "exhaustive comparison tests" on gear. Hard to say how these can be quantified in an objective way. We testers are making emotional judgments on what we hear. Maybe during one test we're getting bored and forget how we felt (precisely) in Scenario 1 vs. Scenario 5. Maybe it was a bad day at work and our mood is disjointed even though we're determined to grind through more tests. Maybe we're super thrilled with our talent in that last take (not that we'd ever admit to such distractions!) without noticing the less-than-beautiful effect of adding or removing a bit of EQ ... or a different colored putty. Or whatever. These are all non-quantifiable data points. Those of us on the other side of the computer screen can listen to the various takes, but then we can fall for the same variables that might skew our judgment in better or worse ways. Wish there was an easier way to do this!
Hi Rick,
maybe a blend of the white and grey putty would yield that perfect result....
, start at 50 / 50 say, then adjust blend to taste... make sure to label all clips accurately!
I have to say that my white putty (original Ischell) ended up looking a bit grey after going on and off the bass numerous times. I don't know if the gradual colour change affected the tone at all
Seriously though, thanks for sharing, and it is a great idea to get TBers to confirm or contest your findings or impressions - it does help temper any personal subjectivity
Steve
maybe a blend of the white and grey putty would yield that perfect result....
, start at 50 / 50 say, then adjust blend to taste... make sure to label all clips accurately!I have to say that my white putty (original Ischell) ended up looking a bit grey after going on and off the bass numerous times. I don't know if the gradual colour change affected the tone at all
Seriously though, thanks for sharing, and it is a great idea to get TBers to confirm or contest your findings or impressions - it does help temper any personal subjectivity
Steve
Sounds great Rick!
I´d like to know how much volume you can get with the contact mic before feedback in a live situation. I guess at a higher volume level the bass starts to act as a giant air mic. But if you have a nice amplified sound and enough volume before that happens, than this is great.
I´d like to know how much volume you can get with the contact mic before feedback in a live situation. I guess at a higher volume level the bass starts to act as a giant air mic. But if you have a nice amplified sound and enough volume before that happens, than this is great.
One man’s interpretation fun is differs greatly from another’s. Mine would be sitting on a beach. Fortunately for us Rick’s is tinkering with bass gear. To each his own.
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Well folks, I'm not done yet. Fischer had told me that one of the bassists in France using the Ischell Mic gets the best results with the bass cut set to 360hz. I'd be interested in seeing a graph of this 'bass cut' as it must be VERY gradual. Anyway, I started out setting the bass cut to 180 hz and got a nice clean sound without losing any low end (Maybe someone can desplain this to me). So, I figured I'd go all-in and switched it to 360 hz. WOW. It sounds really NICE. Very clear and clean yet full and rich. It just seems to have gotten rid of any mud. Apparently all Mud does not live in the low double digit frequencies ????
I'm going to bring the Zoom to the gig tonight. Just me and a pianist playing a nice Roland digital piano.
I'm going to bring the Zoom to the gig tonight. Just me and a pianist playing a nice Roland digital piano.
Earl
Supporting Member
While that's definitely true, I like to be able to tailor the low frequency response to the venue I'm performing in. In general terms I have the HPF on my Grace Felix set around 80 Hz to 120 hz, since my bass is a 5/8's
I have occasionally set it to 180 hz. Just my take. Basses low end response varies alot.
I tried the Ischell Mic on the gig last night and it sounded very nice and very 'natural'. I had my EQ settings where they had been at home and it wasn't until the last set that I thought to boost some high-mids (I LOVE having sweepable mids). It's been said enough to make it a truism, but the best sound in your home studio isn't necessarily the same sound you need on the gig. With that in mind I will probably switch back to the white putty to brighten it up a bit more.
Also, I got a note from Fischer Ischell regarding the High-Pass filter which was very interesting:
To answer your question on the high pass, indeed it is not a high pass that plunges to infinity from the selected frequency, it is a first order filter with a slope of 6dB per octave over 2 octaves, then it's flat.
In short, when you put the high pass on 360Hz, the sound will have -6dB at 180Hz and -12dB at 90Hz, frequencies below 90Hz will remain present.
I find it’s more musical.
I had been planning on trying the white putty on tonight's gig, BUT the club is jam-packed with Christmas parties and we are crammed into little corner space so I'm not going to bring the big bass tonight. I'll bring my second bass, 'Iris', which wears a KNA DB-1 pickup but I'm going to try the Ischell Mic on that bass tonight. Should be interesting.
Also, I got a note from Fischer Ischell regarding the High-Pass filter which was very interesting:
To answer your question on the high pass, indeed it is not a high pass that plunges to infinity from the selected frequency, it is a first order filter with a slope of 6dB per octave over 2 octaves, then it's flat.
In short, when you put the high pass on 360Hz, the sound will have -6dB at 180Hz and -12dB at 90Hz, frequencies below 90Hz will remain present.
I find it’s more musical.
I had been planning on trying the white putty on tonight's gig, BUT the club is jam-packed with Christmas parties and we are crammed into little corner space so I'm not going to bring the big bass tonight. I'll bring my second bass, 'Iris', which wears a KNA DB-1 pickup but I'm going to try the Ischell Mic on that bass tonight. Should be interesting.
"I Never Find Perfection". Doesn't keep me from trying, though.
There are two kinds of obsessions. One is productive, according to the anecdote when someone asked Pablo Casals why he keeps on practicing at the age of 90, he responded: "I see an improvement". The other....well, let me use a description of a Toronto hipster ordering coffee: "Erm, yeah, can I have a medium decaf Kopi Iuwak no sugar ON THE RIGHT SIDE....and a non-fat chai latte extra hot with ground unicorn pubes ON THE LEFT SIDE of the same cup.
Speaking of HPFs, I just got a Broughton Audio "Always on" pedal. I love it! Now if it only had a phase switch I could dump my Fdeck. INFE! It never f...ends!
There are two kinds of obsessions. One is productive, according to the anecdote when someone asked Pablo Casals why he keeps on practicing at the age of 90, he responded: "I see an improvement". The other....well, let me use a description of a Toronto hipster ordering coffee: "Erm, yeah, can I have a medium decaf Kopi Iuwak no sugar ON THE RIGHT SIDE....and a non-fat chai latte extra hot with ground unicorn pubes ON THE LEFT SIDE of the same cup.
Speaking of HPFs, I just got a Broughton Audio "Always on" pedal. I love it! Now if it only had a phase switch I could dump my Fdeck. INFE! It never f...ends!
New Recordings comparing Ischell, Xlson, and Zoom onboard
On this recording I have the Ischell below and a little inboard of the E side Bridge foot.
The Xlson is between the soundpost and the f-hole
The Zoom mic is mono and about 1 foot in front of the G side of the bridge.
These tracks are all straight into the Zoom recorder with no EQ or processing.
On this recording I have the Ischell below and a little inboard of the E side Bridge foot.
The Xlson is between the soundpost and the f-hole
The Zoom mic is mono and about 1 foot in front of the G side of the bridge.
These tracks are all straight into the Zoom recorder with no EQ or processing.
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I wanted to try one more demo using my MAS 16 and BAM200. You'll see from the video that I have cut mids and bass and treble are pretty flat.
The model Ischel mic I bought has the option of supplying phantom power thru a 9v battery which is attached behind the tailpiece. That together with an XLR to 1/4 adaptor allows me to go straight into the BAM200 (or any other bass head or amplifier with a 1/4 input).
I'm probably going to suspend my testing here as I have found what appears to be the optimal placement and settings (for my particular bass). To be honest, this is closer to the sound of a good 'air mic' than I had thought possible with a 'contact mic'. Kudos to Fischer Ischell.
PS. I tried turning my amp up REALLY LOUD while standing right next to it and didn't have a hint of feedback. Also, as you might expect, bleed is virtually nonexistent.
The model Ischel mic I bought has the option of supplying phantom power thru a 9v battery which is attached behind the tailpiece. That together with an XLR to 1/4 adaptor allows me to go straight into the BAM200 (or any other bass head or amplifier with a 1/4 input).
I'm probably going to suspend my testing here as I have found what appears to be the optimal placement and settings (for my particular bass). To be honest, this is closer to the sound of a good 'air mic' than I had thought possible with a 'contact mic'. Kudos to Fischer Ischell.
PS. I tried turning my amp up REALLY LOUD while standing right next to it and didn't have a hint of feedback. Also, as you might expect, bleed is virtually nonexistent.
Sounds great but would you use it instead of the Axelsson mic or only for louder gigs where you would normally have used a pickup?
Hi Kristian,
Because it's so easy to do so I believe I will just leave this mic on the bass all the time (just as I do my KNA Bridge wing pickup).
I'm amazed that I get a sound that is so much just like my acoustic bass sound from a contact mic. I'll be trying it on the next couple gigs I have.
I'm going to have to go back with the Xlson and try some subtle changes in position. I was doing that yesterday and was surprised at how moving a mic just a little can make a very noticeable difference in tone.
One interesting thing the Xlson does is to give a bass a more 'pillowy - lush sound'. Kind of MBOB (My Bass Only Better). In a way, I think it makes my bass sound like a more expensive instrument. So of the two, the Ischell may actually be more 'accurate', but the Xlson 'Colors' my bass tone but in a good way. I believe I can get more low-end gravitas with the Xlson which some people would like and others might not find 'realistic'. To me it sounds like what you hear (and feel) just a a large fireworks shell ignits - 'Whoosh'. As an illustration I will share a clip of a tune I recorded with the Xlson: Betcha By Golly Wow | City Lights Jazz with MEGHAN CAUSEY
As Rick Jones of Acoustic image said when we were comparing two different speakers: "It's two different flavors of good".
Because it's so easy to do so I believe I will just leave this mic on the bass all the time (just as I do my KNA Bridge wing pickup).
I'm amazed that I get a sound that is so much just like my acoustic bass sound from a contact mic. I'll be trying it on the next couple gigs I have.
I'm going to have to go back with the Xlson and try some subtle changes in position. I was doing that yesterday and was surprised at how moving a mic just a little can make a very noticeable difference in tone.
One interesting thing the Xlson does is to give a bass a more 'pillowy - lush sound'. Kind of MBOB (My Bass Only Better). In a way, I think it makes my bass sound like a more expensive instrument. So of the two, the Ischell may actually be more 'accurate', but the Xlson 'Colors' my bass tone but in a good way. I believe I can get more low-end gravitas with the Xlson which some people would like and others might not find 'realistic'. To me it sounds like what you hear (and feel) just a a large fireworks shell ignits - 'Whoosh'. As an illustration I will share a clip of a tune I recorded with the Xlson: Betcha By Golly Wow | City Lights Jazz with MEGHAN CAUSEY
As Rick Jones of Acoustic image said when we were comparing two different speakers: "It's two different flavors of good".
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Sounds great, time to enjoy the fruits of your labor, like the Ehrlund, the Ischell is easy to install and remove while not being attached to the bridge in any way. Hopefully, it will work as well for others as it does for you.
The original Ischell did not play well with my instrument. Rick Jones is correct in his "two flavors" of good" statement, one is just "gooder" with my bass and preamp. I'm sure everyone knows where my preferences are. Just my take
though.
Thanks, Ric,
As always your insights are appreciated. The Gear Junkies job is never complete until I get your take (seriously)
I have the old ischell and I like it but it has a “boxiness” and a kind of unevenness that’s hard to get rid of if the volume gets to high. If this version doesn’t have those issues, I’m very much interested. I guess I’ll try one and send it back if it doesn’t work out for me. On the other hand, the Schoeps superkardiod is calling for me. Costs four times more though…
If the Schoeps were calling me I want to make sure they weren't reversing the charges for the call.
Also, I would first need a better bass (I can dream) and I'd have to be a much better player (maybe in my next life).
