Double Bass New Ischell Mic, Gear Junkie Review Coming

[Wasnex]

I have the old ischell and I like it but it has a “boxiness” and a kind of unevenness that’s hard to get rid of if the volume gets to high. If this version doesn’t have those issues, I’m very much interested. I guess I’ll try one and send it back if it doesn’t work out for me. On the other hand, the Schoeps superkardiod is calling for me. Costs four times more though…

The thing to figure out is whether the boxiness is inherent to the pickup or a quality the pickup is getting from the bass.

The last bass I played professionally was a 7/8 monster that was designed to be a cannon acoustically. IMHO it did not amplify particularly well because it was so resonant.

I used one of the original Gauge Realist, which tends to emphasize the sound of the bass's body. This bass had a wideband resonance across the low mids. When it was plugged into an amp this quality was exaggerated a bit. This sort of resonance becomes more and more problematic as you turn the amp up.

You could still hear it when you played acoustically, but you really had to listen for it. In an acoustic ensemble this quality made the bass sound huge.

I think most would consider it a "fine" instrument as it was commissioned for around $15K in the early 2000s. It would have been awesome in large orchestra or opera house, but it was not the ideal tool for use with an amp IMHO.

 

[Wasnex]

I wanted to try one more demo using my MAS 16 and BAM200. You'll see from the video that I have cut mids and bass and treble are pretty flat.

The model Ischel mic I bought has the option of supplying phantom power thru a 9v battery which is attached behind the tailpiece. That together with an XLR to 1/4 adaptor allows me to go straight into the BAM200 (or any other bass head or amplifier with a 1/4 input).

I'm probably going to suspend my testing here as I have found what appears to be the optimal placement and settings (for my particular bass). To be honest, this is closer to the sound of a good 'air mic' than I had thought possible with a 'contact mic'. Kudos to Fischer Ischell.

PS. I tried turning my amp up REALLY LOUD while standing right next to it and didn't have a hint of feedback. Also, as you might expect, bleed is virtually nonexistent.

You might think I am nuts, but there are some aspects of the sound in the Ischell samples that I like better than the Xlson. Specifically, the Xlson sounds a bit mid-scooped and the Ishell sounds a bit more even across the mids.

 

[rickwolff]

You might think I am nuts, but there are some aspects of the sound in the Ischell samples that I like better than the Xlson. Specifically, the Xlson sounds a bit mid-scooped and the Ishell sounds a bit more even across the mids.

No, I don't think you're nuts. There are some things about the Ischell sound that I really like. I think it is actually quite accurate to the sound of my bass. You may notice in my recording that I had cut the mids pretty substantially - It just sounded better and more 'natural' this way. I think that sometimes the mids that make a mic or pickup sound boxy.

 

[Ric Vice]

I have the old ischell and I like it but it has a “boxiness” and a kind of unevenness that’s hard to get rid of if the volume gets to high. If this version doesn’t have those issues, I’m very much interested. I guess I’ll try one and send it back if it doesn’t work out for me. On the other hand, the Schoeps superkardiod is calling for me. Costs four times more though…

Kristian,
There's no doubt that the Schoeps CMC6 MK41 or the new CMC1/MK41 are the premier microphones for Double Bass, when you play an auditorium, concert club, festival stage, or recording studio setting. Most of us mere mortals
don't see those playing scenarios on a weekly basis. I have bass playing friends that use that setup with the Grace Felix or Acoustic Box II. It's expensive over 3 grand us, and perhaps only for those of us who can justify such expenditures.
Frankly, even if I owned the Schoeps, I'd be hesitant to take it out to my local watering hole on a sub par gig where it might get appropriated. I'm getting a really great sound from the EAP and a Grace Felix. Not Schoeps great, but pretty great.
Just my take.

 

[rickwolff]

Kristian,
There's no doubt that the Schoeps CMC6 MK41 or the new CMC1/MK41 are the premier microphones for Double Bass, when you play an auditorium, concert club, festival stage, or recording studio setting. Most of us mere mortals
don't see those playing scenarios on a weekly basis. I have bass playing friends that use that setup with the Grace Felix or Acoustic Box II. It's expensive over 3 grand us, and perhaps only for those of us who can justify such expenditures.
Frankly, even if I owned the Schoeps, I'd be hesitant to take it out to my local watering hole on a sub par gig where it might get appropriated. I'm getting a really great sound from the EAP and a Grace Felix. Not Schoeps great, but pretty great.
Just my take.

Thanks for this, Ric. It helps me set some realistic boundaries. (And I'm lucky if I see any of the above-mentioned venues once a year). Also, it helps to keep SWMBO happy and we'll be celebrating 43 years in a little over a week.

 

[Ric Vice]

Thanks for this, Ric. It helps me set some realistic boundaries. (And I'm lucky if I see any of the above-mentioned venues once a year). Also, it helps to keep SWMBO happy and we'll be celebrating 43 years in a little over a week.

Now that’s something to talk about. congratulations Rick.

 

[Don Kasper]

we'll be celebrating 43 years in a little over a week.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it...(jk)
Congratulations to the happy couple. (Not Kidding.)

 

[rickwolff]

Another little clip. Guess which microphone and I'd love to hear your comments about the sound and tone of the recording.

 

[Povl Carstensen]

A direct comparison/shootout between Ischell and Ehrlund could be great. There was a post/link where somebody tried a lot of placements with the Ehrlund (where did I see that, did not save the link?), and to my ears, the placement below the E side bridge foot was also the best in that case. I guess if someone has the link, at least they could be compared. Even this acoustic mic nerd is being tempted.

 

[Povl Carstensen]

Another little clip. Guess which microphone and I'd love to hear your comments about the sound and tone of the recording.

An AKG?

 

[rickwolff]

An AKG?

Povl, thanks for playing. No, it's actually the Ischell. Bet you're surprised, aren't you? I was. I keep walking into my practice room and playing a few notes through the Ischell several times a day. I actually can't believe how realistic it sounds.

 

[basss]

I'm thinking about getting an Ischell C3 but not sure what jack system to pick. I like the simplicity of the single 1/4 out and pretty much always carry a DI with me. Is there a difference in sound or any other advantage when going out of the XLR?

 

[Wasnex]

I'm thinking about getting an Ischell C3 but not sure what jack system to pick. I like the simplicity of the single 1/4 out and pretty much always carry a DI with me. Is there a difference in sound or any other advantage when going out of the XLR?

IMHO, unless you only play through a PA, you need an option with 1/4" out and onboard power.

I believe you can order it with both 1/4" and XLR out, with the ability to use either 9V or phantom. But IMHO if you have a quality DI, I don't think it's worth paying for the inclusion of XLR and phantom powering.

An exception would be if you use a preamp with an XLR input that provides phantom power.

There is also an option to add 9V power to the XLR only version.

So ultimately the decision depends on your gear and how you will use the pickup.

1/4" jack with 9V power: J48CCB - ISCHELL ISCHELL

Per the webpage, J48CCB can also run XLR and Phantom with this adapter: Cable JACK-XLR - ISCHELL ISCHELL

XLR with Phantom and added (optional) 9V power: X48C - ISCHELL ISCHELL

XLR with Phantom and added (optional) 9V power and 1/4" jack: X48JC - ISCHELL ISCHELL

All three have an HPF that can be set to 180hz, 360hz, or flat.

 

[basss]

Thanks, lots of options... Do you guys find the low cut switches a 'set it and forget it' thing or are you adjusting that often to the room/band etc?

 

[rickwolff]

I have the X48C and the Cable Jack adaptor cable. It works great either with just the XLR into my Genzler Acoustic Pro which provides 12v phantom, OR using the XLR 1/4 inch adaptor (and using the 9v battery) I can go straight into any 'bass amp' with a 1/4 inch input and no additional phantom power.

When I run it into my Genzer, I don't notice any difference in sound whether I'm going straight in with the XOR to the amp, or using the adapter (and 9v battery power) and going into the quarter-inch input.

This has made it very versatile and in a typical Live situation I don't think I could tell the difference between the Ischell C3 and a rally good air mic. (except for the lack of feedback).

If I am recording a live gig I have the option of using the Ischell C3 through my amp and sending the air mic directly to the recorder (no problem with feedback that way.

 

[basss]

Thanks Rick. I'm thinking I can probably just do the 1/4. And I appreciate all the sound samples you've posted!

 

[rickwolff]

Update re: Low-cut settings on the Ischell C3

I have always used the Ischell with the settings on 'flat', no low cut.

However, after some recent experimenting with my Fdeck HPF I realized what a lot of you already knew: that an HPF can really 'clean up' your sound and give you more useable volume.

So.....I decided to see if just changing the settings on the Ischell C3 could basically do what the Fdeck is doing. First I changed the setting to cut from 180hz, and it sounded better and more clean.

Then I changed it to the 360hz cut and it sounded better yet. It didn't make the sound 'thin' as I might have guessed but it just took out the mud and gave a much cleaner sound.

I should mention that Fischer Ischell had explained to me that it is a very shallow and gradual cut. If I can find his original explanation I will add it later.

 

[Earl]

Update re: Low-cut settings on the Ischell C3

I have always used the Ischell with the settings on 'flat', no low cut.

However, after some recent experimenting with my Fdeck HPF I realized what a lot of you already knew: that an HPF can really 'clean up' your sound and give you more useable volume.

So.....I decided to see if just changing the settings on the Ischell C3 could basically do what the Fdeck is doing. First I changed the setting to cut from 180hz, and it sounded better and more clean.

Then I changed it to the 360hz cut and it sounded better yet. It didn't make the sound 'thin' as I might have guessed but it just took out the mud and gave a much cleaner sound.

I should mention that Fischer Ischell had explained to me that it is a very shallow and gradual cut. If I can find his original explanation I will add it later.

Yes, I always used the 360 with the Ischell.

 

[rickwolff]

Yes, I always used the 360 with the Ischell.

I'm just a slow learner.

 

[rickwolff]

I made a new recording with the Ischell Mics.

First Track is my Zoom X/Y 'reference 'mics

Second Track is the Ischell C3 Contact Mic

Third Track is the Ischell A3 Air Mic

I added a little EQ in post.
With the C3 I rolled off highs above 1200 hz
With the A3 I cut a little bass and boosted a little mids and highs.

The Zoom X/Y mics
The Ischell C3 Contact Mic
The Ischel A3 Air Mic