Double Bass New Ischell Mic, Gear Junkie Review Coming

[Kristian]

I actually liked the ischell the most. Does this mean that I need to buy another mic again… if they are close in feedback resistance, I would. But I think headway is also working on a new mic, I’ll wait for that one first…

 

[rickwolff]

I actually liked the ischell the most. Does this mean that I need to buy another mic again… if they are close in feedback resistance, I would. But I think headway is also working on a new mic, I’ll wait for that one first…

Kristian, I don't believe they are the same at rejecting feedback. I imagine that what you like about the Ischell is the more pronounced high-frequencies which give it more 'presence'. Those, unfortunately, are the frequencies most prone to feedback and perhaps the reason Peter Axlson chose to attenuate the highs on his Chuck Israels Mic.

That said, I am still surprised at how loud I can get the amplifier (in my studio) before getting feedback with the Ischell A3. I cut the Highs and Mids which still leaves a very nice sound. As I turn it up to the point where I start to get feedback there are two frequencies in the mid-highs that start to feedback. My sweepable mid knob can get one or the other but not both. Just for kicks, I may plug in my Fishman Dual-Parametric pre and see what happens if I notch both of those out with a very narrow notch. Probably not a practical 'on-the-gig' fix.

So, The Xlson does have better feedback resistance.

 

[Ric Vice]

One caveat is that the Xlson is a side address microphone only, specifically designed to use with a Double Bass. It has no forward facing element. The capsule is completely
blocked off at the top. It only pickups up sound from two small oval openings on the side of the microphone. This controls feedback quite well. That said, it's still a microphone.

 

[rickwolff]

Thanks, Ric. Yes, the design does control feedback quite well (I'm thinking this should be in an Xlson Thread).

However, because a Figure 8 mic pics up sound from both sides of the mic (front and back) it is also picking up sound from in front of the bass. That might be crowd noise as in a restaurant, or another instrument in front of the bass. One piano player I worked with complained that he was hearing his piano (and not a 'good' sound') through my amplifier. Turns out, the 'back' side of the Xlson was aiming toward his piano. In some cases you might be able to change your relative positions - in this case I was not.

So, that'd got me back to thinking about John Goldsworthys (oops, Goldsby, sorry John)
'sound shield'. I had actually bought one and found it didn't seem to make a significant difference.

I decided to try something different - a small 'shield' or baffle that is close to the mic and wraps around it a bit. I had such a thing that was designed to give 'some' isolation to a vocal mic so I adapted that to the H Clamp. My initial testing - by sitting right in front of the bass about six inches from the mic and talking showed that having the baffle significantly reduced the amount of sound getting into the mic from the 'back'.

I'll have to test it in a rehearsal or on a gig to see if it really works.

 

[John Goldsby]

So, that'd got me back to thinking about John Goldsworthys 'sound shield'. I had actually bought one and found it didn't seem to make a significant difference.

"Goldsworthy" ... my new name is a mouthful!
If you record your bass with other instruments, and then listen back to the recording, you want to minimize the amount of bleed from the other instruments. That's what the sound shield achieves. If you're just playing a quartet gig in a club and you're not going for a high-end recording, then it won't make much difference to you, the band or the audience.

However, because a Figure 8 mic pics up sound from both sides of the mic (front and back) it is also picking up sound from in front of the bass. That might be crowd noise as in a restaurant, or another instrument in front of the bass. One piano player I worked with complained that he was hearing his piano (and not a 'good' sound') through my amplifier. Turns out, the 'back' side of the Xlson was aiming toward his piano. In some cases you might be able to change your relative positions - in this case I was not.

Yes, this is the same problem a lot of mics have — the figure 8 pattern picks up sound coming from the front and from the back side of the mic, even on a super-cardioid like the Schoeps MK41. As you point out, you will be picking up drums, horns, piano, etc. That's why the recording engineers I work with choose to shield the mic on the back side to keep out the other instruments that will bleed into it (and also reduce the sound waves from the other instruments reflecting off the top of the bass into the mic).

 

[rickwolff]

"Goldsworthy" ... my new name is a mouthful!
If you record your bass with other instruments, and then listen back to the recording, you want to minimize the amount of bleed from the other instruments. That's what the sound shield achieves. If you're just playing a quartet gig in a club and you're not going for a high-end recording, then it won't make much difference to you, the band or the audience.



Yes, this is the same problem a lot of mics have — the figure 8 pattern picks up sound coming from the front and from the back side of the mic, even on a super-cardioid like the Schoeps MK41. As you point out, you will be picking up drums, horns, piano, etc. That's why the recording engineers I work with choose to shield the mic on the back side to keep out the other instruments that will bleed into it (and also reduce the sound waves from the other instruments reflecting off the top of the bass into the mic).

Hi John,

Sorry about the name train wreck. Interestingly enough, I just got a book on how to improve your memory. We'll see if it works, but I think I'll remember your name at least.

 

[Wasnex]

So, that'd got me back to thinking about John Goldsworthys 'sound shield'. I had actually bought one and found it didn't seem to make a significant difference.

There are lot's of cheap mic shields on the market that do not perform as well as the sE Electronics reflexion filters.

Pretty sure @John Goldsby uses one of the larger sE Electronics Reflexion filters. This is the largest they make (RF Space).

RF SPACE - sE Electronics

Way to big to mount on a bass, but a good solution if you use a Schoeps pencil mic (Mk41) on a stand. Keep in mind this is an end address mic.

Additionally, I believe a lot of the sound that bleeds into the mic actually bounces off the face of the bass and reflects back into the front of the mic. So placing the reflexion filter close to the bass, where it would create sort of an acoustic shadow should be even more effective in controlling the bleed.

I believe Mr Goldsby takes a system approach...by this I mean the reflexion filter is not the only step used to mitigate the problem. I believe positioning of the other instruments is also a factor, and also I have seen images where a gobo (acoustic panel) is placed between the bass and drums.

 

[rickwolff]

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Additionally, I believe a lot of the sound that bleeds into the mic actually bounces off the face of the bass and reflects back into the front of the mic. So placing the reflexion filter close to the bass, where it would create sort of an acoustic shadow should be even more effective in controlling the bleed.

I believe Mr Goldsby takes a system approach...by this I mean the reflexion filter is not the only step used to mitigate the problem. I believe positioning of the other instruments is also a factor, and also I have seen images where a gobo (acoustic panel) is placed between the bass and drums.

I agree with all that you state above.

Mr. Goldsby has earned a position where he (and his sound engineer) are able to control a lot of the variables.

For what I need I feel I am 80 - 90% of the way there. I'm hoping the little acoustic reflector I made will get rid of more of the bleed (can't afford to have pianists unhappy with me LOL).

 

[Ric Vice]

Well,
Over the course of time my experiences have led me simpler and simpler systems on gigs without FOH support.
Playing gigs is easier when you don’t have to worry about complicated setups.Just my take. Having a microphone
only works FOH with my bass.