New mesa subway amps and cabs!

[Doug Parent]

I never had problem getting lost in the mix with the 800 with the voicing control I could always get close to what I was hearing in my head. In my case I'm playing bass and running 16 channels with 8 piece band. I don't have time to scratch my butt much less fiddle with preamp controls all night but the D800 provided worry free solid punchy low end.
Now with the WD800 that sound field around the voice of the bass guitar has even more definition around the edges, and some added sweetness. There is a clarity and "texture" I get from the Wd800 that the D Series does not seem to be designed for. Frankly, I could use either because these Subway products all land inside the target for me. I am reminded of the long years where I was playing bass through a mush box and still had a great time. I envy you guys with the very high end bass heads and lots of options, but I'm not able to justify those purchases and have to rely on one well designed bass head to get the job done. Great freaking job Andy.

 

[Lowendtech]

You guys are making me want one of these That said I am pretty freaking happy with the D800+. It just works so well for what I do. Also 100% agreed about the brighter sound sitting better in a mix. Generally I find even a slightly more aggressive tone at home will tend to sound round and warm but clear when playing a gig(especially out front). A similar analogy would be how a p-bass sounds soloed at home as compared to how it sits in a band mix or in a track.

You should come for a visit and take a WD for a test drive with a BF cab or two.

 

[Al Kraft]

I understand what some are saying about being bright forward — in my living room it sounds brighter but I simply tweak a knob or two. But at a gig, oh my! Just gigged it for the second time on Thursday and its warm presence, rich and lush yet clear and clean, easily meeting a loud drummer, just had me grinning all night. And the rest of the band also heard me really well, which sometimes has been a struggle at louder gigs.

This is why I think a lot of us who are drawn to Mesa products are also either current or former GK users. I own and enjoy GK gear for exactly the reasons you mentioned here about how it performs on stage at a gig. By sacrificing a little on the living room sound front, what you get in return is performance optimized for real work.

To me Mesa has always had a a lot of that same thinking designed in, but seemed to be a little less sterile sounding and had a voicing that was very appealing to me. The new Subway line offers that same optimized performance on a gig quality in multiple designs, voicings and features.

While the WD-800 isn't simply an 800 Watt WA as many had hoped for, I find it to be hitting the mark for me based on what I would have wanted a high powered WA to be able to do in mix. The trade off was giving up some of the compression and bloom and getting a little more clarity/definition to the notes. While that isn't going to give me the exact living room or small gig original WA sound, I feel like it does solve problems that kept my original WA's from being great performers on larger gigs.

I listen from a total mix perspective with an audience in mind when I buy gear and adjust to having a little more crispness/sterile focus on stage than I might otherwise like. I'm sure that approach doesn't work for everyone and that's just one more reason why it's great to have so many brands offering so many choices.

 

[mesaplayer83]

I never had problem getting lost in the mix with the 800 with the voicing control I could always get close to what I was hearing in my head. In my case I'm playing bass and running 16 channels with 8 piece band. I don't have time to scratch my butt much less fiddle with preamp controls all night but the D800 provided worry free solid punchy low end.
Now with the WD800 that sound field around the voice of the bass guitar has even more definition around the edges, and some added sweetness. There is a clarity and "texture" I get from the Wd800 that the D Series does not seem to be designed for. Frankly, I could use either because these Subway products all land inside the target for me. I am reminded of the long years where I was playing bass through a mush box and still had a great time. I envy you guys with the very high end bass heads and lots of options, but I'm not able to justify those purchases and have to rely on one well designed bass head to get the job done. Great freaking job Andy.

Yeah, I don't have any problem at all getting the D800 to sit in a mix well for me - I EQ what I want with the Voicing around 10 o'clock, then turn it up or down to tweak how I sit in the mix from there...

 

[midichlorine]

I can't wait to try one!

I don't really lean on my amp as much as I do my bass and my fingers, I mainly bought one for the USB port and the aux in/ headphone out jacks!

 

[Al Kraft]

Yeah, I don't have any problem at all getting the D800 to sit in a mix well for me - I EQ what I want with the Voicing around 10 o'clock, then turn it up or down to tweak how I sit in the mix from there...

+1...and because that voicing control is a little more complex/sophisticated than just a single dimension "degree of mid-scoop" control, I find that even if I use a higher setting (although I'm a 10 o'clock fan as well), the tone is still usable in a mix and doesn't get easily buried.

 

[mesaplayer83]

+1...and because that voicing control is a little more complex/sophisticated than just a single dimension "degree of mid-scoop" control, I find that even if I use a higher setting (although I'm a 10 o'clock fan as well), the tone is still usable in a mix and doesn't get easily buried.

Yup - I should've said between 10-11 o'clock for a starting point, actually...

 

[nostatic]

This is why I think a lot of us who are drawn to Mesa products are also either current or former GK users. I own and enjoy GK gear for exactly the reasons you mentioned here about how it performs on stage at a gig. By sacrificing a little on the living room sound front, what you get in return is performance optimized for real work.

Interesting thought, as the WD800 does have a bit of what I consider "GK tone" in it compared to the D800/+. With the modern GK heads (I had an MB Fusion), in my hands I found I needed to cut the treble and high mid a fair amount to get my "starting tone". They are edgy to me set flat. By contrast the D800/+ is somewhat "laid back" (some say dark) to my ear. The WD800 sits in-between, and turns out for what I'm trying to get tonally at the moment, is pretty much a perfect fit.

 

[agedhorse]

Chef was one of the test players who actually gigged the WD-800 pre-release.

There are plenty of smaller amps that do very well for bedroom/music room tone. Some of these happen to be smaller tube amps, some are solid state/hybrids, the Walkabout would have fit this application better if it didn't need to have as much airflow (and the noisier fan). It 's one of the byproducts of that particular power amp topology (it's not a typical class AB application, there are some unique, atypical properties involved).

 

[bobcruz]

I ran it last week into 3x12s at 2.67ohms with the switch at 2ohms at a rehearsal and it was unanimously out-performed sound-wise by Monique. I A/Bed Monique Tuesday night at rehearsal with a Walkabout into the same 3x12s at 2.67ohms and half those in attendance preferred the Walkabout. No one thought the WD sounded bad, they just preferred Monique or the WA. It was missing that bounce and bloom to my ears.

If I had three 8-ohm cabs, I'd experiment with leaving the switch set to 4/8 ohms and running the cabs in series at 24 ohms with the master volume cranked. If I didn't feel the WA bounce (which I feel through the strings more than hear) with that experiment, I'd be done and move on.

 

[TomB]

Interesting thought, as the WD800 does have a bit of what I consider "GK tone" in it compared to the D800/+. With the modern GK heads (I had an MB Fusion), in my hands I found I needed to cut the treble and high mid a fair amount to get my "starting tone". They are edgy to me set flat. By contrast the D800/+ is somewhat "laid back" (some say dark) to my ear. The WD800 sits in-between, and turns out for what I'm trying to get tonally at the moment, is pretty much a perfect fit.

I hope I don’t insult you or other readers with the reminder that a GK set “straight up” is not flat. Sorry, back to the WD...

 

[Al Kraft]

I hope I don’t insult you or other readers with the reminder that a GK set “straight up” is not flat. Sorry, back to the WD...

+1...I've re-posted this a number of times and it was done by a fellow TB remember. FWIW it has passed muster with many GK users as being accurate:

 

[AMJBASS]

You should come for a visit and take a WD for a test drive with a BF cab or two.

That’s dangerous I might take you up on that though

 

[nostatic]

I hope I don’t insult you or other readers with the reminder that a GK set “straight up” is not flat. Sorry, back to the WD...

Depends on what you're referencing with the term "flat". For me, I want an amp that sounds good to me with the controls at noon. That then allows me to use the controls to either compensate for a room or a specific instrument or to get a particular "sound." Towards that end, my use of "flat" is with regard to the controls, not a spectrum sweep. That said, it is more complicated as different tone stacks have different behaviors, but many (most?) amps have noon as a position with cut and boost options (CCW, CW).

Using "flat" referring to the frequency response is great for analysis, not so great for actual use on a gig. All amps have some inherent voicing to my ear, which is likely not "flat" wrt frequency response. And that's ok...I either like it or I don't. At the end of the day, it either sounds good to me and is workable on a gig or it isn't. All the measurements in the world fall by the wayside at downbeat.

With newer GK heads, I ended up with my treble about 8-9:00, upper mid often the same. That gave me a sound I liked. But it wasn't going to give me much latitude if I wanted/needed to push the upper end of the spectrum around.

No right answer. If you like it and it works, then it is good. If it doesn't, you move on to the next candidate

 

[terlewine]

that voicing control is a little more complex/sophisticated than just a single dimension "degree of mid-scoop" control

I'm still getting to know the voicing control on my D-800. I'd be very interested in descriptions of what you and others hear and look for in the range of this control.

 

[nostatic]

+1...I've re-posted this a number of times and it was done by a fellow TB remember. FWIW it has passed muster with many GK users as being accurate:
View attachment 3280413

If that is "flat" on a scope, then I clearly don't like "flat" - I'd never run that head that way. Especially with the master at 0

 

[Al Kraft]

If that is "flat" on a scope, then I clearly don't like "flat" - I'd never run that head that way. Especially with the master at 0

Its' funny how what we often hear or describe as flat versus what a scope will tell you aren't quite as close as we might expect. This is the reason I think so many amp designers ask people to think twice about whether or not they really want a laboratory instrument, flat response head.

Of course what we actually hear is the product of a voiced amp, whatever our voiced/"tonally focused" cabs produce from the amp's input, and the net result of all that as flavored/affected by room acoustics. Is it any wonder why we have such a hard time knowing what "flat" actually sounds like from person to person?

 

[Al Kraft]

I'm still getting to know the voicing control on my D-800. I'd be very interested in descriptions of what you and others hear and look for in the range of this control.

We probably all go for something a little different, but the particular control for me allows me to adjust the amp's basic voicing to be slightly less mid forward/present to get what I would describe as a smoother/creamier tone without losing projection, clarity, and definition that are often compromised when you aggressively attenuate mid frequencies. For me as a finger style player this is why I find peace with that control in the 9-10 o'clock range and not much higher. If I was a slapper I might like the control more between noon and 3 o'clock to help me center the head on a voicing that complements that style of playing.

What is nice about the Subway voicing control to me is its somewhat seamless and unlimited options. My Carbine has 5 pre-sets, each of which touch a number of frequencies to give you a new baseline EQ/voice point to work from. By not simply scooping mids more and more starting at some predetermined frequency, the voicing stays better balanced in my opinion. The Subway control actually seems to have some frequency point effect shifting and maybe Q (degree of effect on either side of the center frequency) modifying properties built in as you sweep it from one extreme to the other. This ensures a nice balance in the overall tone (not just a dip in the mids around a single frequency).

Once you get the basic voice (tonal home base) you're looking for, the EQ can then be used to fine tune. I hope that's helpful and close to what you were looking for. And remember, your own technique, type of bass and speakers (plus effects if you use them) will all play into how the voicing control could be useful to you. I'm sure others will have equally valid perspectives that may differ from what I shared.

 

[terlewine]

Thanks. Bottom line: use my ears!

 

[Al Kraft]

Thanks. Bottom line: use my ears!

Always!