New Mike Adler TWELVE STRING BASS????

[Al Caldwell]

The electronics are wild on this bass. The pre amp is beyond studio grade and the clarity was like a piano! I can't wait to hear what Garry does with it. James Jamerson first axe was one string bass. Thank god he added some strings! Killer Bass , Mike and Garry!!! Al Caldwell

 

[mark beem]

First off: I love this adler 12 string - it looks stunning

With regard to the stick/warr/touchstyle vibe
generally it's a different approach to this instrument than the bass. Although there are exceptions to that rule.
Generally on most 10 string standard sticks the tuning is from bass side high to low (EADGC) with C being the lowest (or backwards of what we expect) for 5 strings and then goes low to high for the next 5 strings like a guitar (F#BEAD). It's meant to be more like a piano - where you can play bass and melody lines at the same time. Grand sticks (12 strings) generally add one more high string and one more low string. altough come with the option of 7 melody strings and 5 bass strings

Now back to the Adler: I'm super curious about the ownership duties on such a beast. Where do you find strings, what do you have to do differently amp wise to take full advantage of all that range, how about setup? how difficult are they? can the average fussy bass player manage it himself? How about $$$ I'm sure the options and possibilities are endless but is there a bottom number and a top number? Whats the build time? How about fingerboard radius?

Beautiful looking instrument regardless.

Best Wishes,
DR Burkowitz

Damn, DR!! Where you been??? Good to see you back!!

 

[jvbjr]

that's a pretty blanket statement not backed up by any actual fact.



the top 4 or 5 strings on this bass are non-wound - the smallest is a .004" yes, that's right, a .004".

My facts are my personal experiences playing in bands for two decades. If I want to play those higher notes I will just pull a guitar out and play them there. If I wanted the ability to play both guitar and bass at once, I will use my Novax Charlie Hunter or my 11 string Novax or a doubleneck bass/guitar.

I can't palm a basketball so 12 string with bass spacing is not doable for me, YMMV. My middle finger is 3" exactly, I just measured it.

 

[Dave Grossman]

My facts are my personal experiences playing in bands for two decades. If I want to play those higher notes I will just pull a guitar out and play them there. If I wanted the ability to play both guitar and bass at once, I will use my Novax Charlie Hunter or my 11 string Novax or a doubleneck bass/guitar.

I consider the Guitar and Bass members of the same family of instruments much as a Violin and Cello are members of the same family. For me, a bass that spans both ranges is not just a bass and it's not for bass players who want to be guitarists, it's a new instrument with the flexibility to play in any range we want. Or play polyphonically using two-handed tapping techniques (the best thing about ERB's, in my opinion).

I think we all need to get out of this mindset that there are basses and guitars and that's it. The extended range bass allows one to play in any range they want and blurs the distinction between the archaic and obsolete notions of bass, tenor, alto and soprano note ranges. Those ranges come from human vocal ranges and later, the ranges of the instruments meant to carry on that tradition, the violin, viola, cello and double-bass. It follows that the bass range, while suited for most types of music played today, is not necessarily a requirement for all music.

Musical innovation and progress is not made by people thinking inside the box but by people who push the edge of the envelope (yeah, mixed metaphors, so sue me).

This is the 21st Century. It's about time that an instrument came along that gives a stringed instrument player the range and flexibility that keyboard players have enjoyed for millenia.

It would be interesting to know what it would be like if ERBs were ERGs and it was the guitar that snuck into the bass range. Would guitarists talk about ERG players as frustrated bassists?

- Dave

 

[mark beem]

It would be interesting to know what it would be like if ERBs were ERGs and it was the guitar that snuck into the bass range. Would guitarists talk about ERG players as frustrated bassists?

- Dave

"So if you're down there, who's playing the guitar parts?"

"Why do you need one of those? Isn't there already a bass player in the band?"

"If I want to play those lower notes I will just pull a bass out and play them there."

 

[jvbjr]

I consider the Guitar and Bass members of the same family of instruments much as a Violin and Cello are members of the same family. For me, a bass that spans both ranges is not just a bass and it's not for bass players who want to be guitarists, it's a new instrument with the flexibility to play in any range we want.

- Dave

I want to see you sweep pick like Yngwie on a 35" scale bass.

 

[john turner]

and what's with all that "frustrated guitarist" stuff?

you wanna see a frustrated guitarist? give him this...

and see if he can make anything musical with it. -that's- a frustrated guitarist.

 

[john turner]

I want to see you sweep pick like Yngwie on a 35" scale bass.

talk to adam nitti.

 

[Bernie Connors]

Hey John,

Did Jean get a chance to take that bass for a spin?

 

[john turner]

Hey John,

Did Jean get a chance to take that bass for a spin?

i think a few folks tried it out but they kept breaking the .004 string, so i think garry ended up not wanting to let folks try it out anymore. garry should be around soon with some input i imagine about how it performs.

 

[narud]

Personally speaking, I haven't gotten to the point where I feel I can truly utilize a 7 string (though I love my sixes). That doesn't mean I'm going to ridicule someone who might have more vision than me. That would be pretty pathetic. There are people doing stuff musically I never thought of. Why would I deride them for that?

cmon,pathetic? so, now people cant ridicule something they think is wack? just because someone has a vision doesnt mean everyone is going to like it or find it in good taste. gg allin did stuff i never though of doing either.

 

[niomosy]

"So if you're down there, who's playing the guitar parts?"

"Why do you need one of those? Isn't there already a bass player in the band?"

"If I want to play those lower notes I will just pull a bass out and play them there."

"Randy Rhoads only needed 6 strings"

 

[narud]

I think we all need to get out of this mindset that there are basses and guitars and that's it. The extended range bass allows one to play in any range they want and blurs the distinction between the archaic and obsolete notions of bass, tenor, alto and soprano note ranges. Those ranges come from human vocal ranges and later, the ranges of the instruments meant to carry on that tradition, the violin, viola, cello and double-bass. It follows that the bass range, while suited for most types of music played today, is not necessarily a requirement for all music.



- Dave

but whats the motivation? is it because they truly find the sound of a bass guitar in that upper register pleasing, or is it to just prove "look what i can do on bass". ive listened to most most of the names mentioned in this thread as peole who can do something with the instrument. from what i heard a couple played some classical pieces and in each instance it was something i would have rather heard on piano or classical guitar.

first off, the sound of traditional bass pickups being used just sounded bad in that upper range. second, the performance was no where near as clean as someone youd typically hear play it on a piano or guitar. the logistics of a long scale instrument make that understandable. if theyre going to attempt those things, they should at least be held to the same standard as a piano player. if a piano player had a clip of themselves playing some classical pieces the way these erb guys are theyd get told to go back to the woodshed. we're more easily impressed by the fact theyre merely attempting it.

 

[DR Burkowitz]

Damn, DR!! Where you been??? Good to see you back!!

Hey Mark,
Good to be back - I've been up to my ears in life changing events.
-My wife and I had child #2
-I quit my day job to start my own business
-Negotiated a record deal with Unicorn records for Dimension X
-recorded new Dimension X album
-Worked in a new drummer (and we all know how hard it can be to train one of thoses guys)

On the when is too many strings too much - I'd almost have to say never. there is a local guy - who Dimension X used to mix our newest album. Who invented a 40 string monster - yeah thats right 40 strings. It and he can be found at - www.stringstation.com - it has to be laid flat to be played - but I gotta say it is incredible to watch and listen too. It makes the Adler look small, but still tasty.

Best Wishes,
DR Burkowitz

 

[mark beem]

and what's with all that "frustrated guitarist" stuff?

you wanna see a frustrated guitarist? give him this...

and see if he can make anything musical with it. -that's- a frustrated guitarist.

Seriously, though.. That is such a beautiful bass!! I'm really jonesing for a new Conklin, but I think I'll wait until the 8 and 9 string New Centuries are available..

 

[john turner]

Seriously, though.. That is such a beautiful bass!! I'm really jonesing for a new Conklin, but I think I'll wait until the 8 and 9 string New Centuries are available..

heh. yeah, i hear ya.

 

[jvbjr]

i think a few folks tried it out but they kept breaking the .004 string

Once upon a time I owned a Conklin 8 string guitar, had the normal E A D G B E and then a low B and a high A. The guitar was 25.5" scale and the .007 that was damn near impossible to locate broke 50% of the time you touched it. I imagine finding a source for .004 strings is next to impossible and when you do locate them, buy them by the gross given the 34" scale length.

In the end I wound up using the old jazz seven string trick or using fishing line for the high A, but it sounded like crap, stretched like crazy and was never in tune.

Ralph Novax's fanned fret system is the way to go IMO for any of these ideas. If the high A had been reduced to 23.5" then it might have worked with a .008 and had a chance to survive, a .007 at 25.5" was too tight to be anything more than decoration.

 

[john turner]

Once upon a time I owned a Conklin 8 string guitar, had the normal E A D G B E and then a low B and a high A. The guitar was 25.5" scale and the .007 that was damn near impossible to locate broke 50% of the time you touched it. I imagine finding a source for .004 strings is next to impossible and when you do locate them, buy them by the gross given the 34" scale length.

In the end I wound up using the old jazz seven string trick or using fishing line for the high A, but it sounded like crap, stretched like crazy and was never in tune.

Ralph Novax's fanned fret system is the way to go IMO for any of these ideas. If the high A had been reduced to 23.5" then it might have worked with a .008 and had a chance to survive, a .007 at 25.5" was too tight to be anything more than decoration.

yeah, those smaller strings don't really have much staying power.

 

[Dave Grossman]

but whats the motivation? is it because they truly find the sound of a bass guitar in that upper register pleasing, or is it to just prove "look what i can do on bass". ive listened to most most of the names mentioned in this thread as peole who can do something with the instrument. from what i heard a couple played some classical pieces and in each instance it was something i would have rather heard on piano or classical guitar.

first off, the sound of traditional bass pickups being used just sounded bad in that upper range. second, the performance was no where near as clean as someone youd typically hear play it on a piano or guitar. the logistics of a long scale instrument make that understandable. if theyre going to attempt those things, they should at least be held to the same standard as a piano player. if a piano player had a clip of themselves playing some classical pieces the way these erb guys are theyd get told to go back to the woodshed. we're more easily impressed by the fact theyre merely attempting it.

I'd like to comment on your post in detail but I think it's easier to just say that I disagree with most of what you've said except for the bit about liking the sound of the bass in the upper register. As far as the rest, it sounds like amateur trolling to me. Or ignorance. No offense. That's just how it comes off.

- Dave

 

[Selta]

IMO - I think we crossed the point of ERBs being considered basses anymore. "Basses" with 8+ strings should simply be called extended range instruments, cos in the basic definition of a bass instrument, well, you lose that definition, especially since you extend very far into treble cleff. This is, of course, IMO, but still... it's getting to the point where you'll have a piano strapped on your shoulder, and you'll still call yourself a bassist...

Ray