New Mike Adler TWELVE STRING BASS????

[flea-bass]

^indeed

 

[Dave Grossman]

OK, let's try to make this as simple as possible:
IT'S SUPOSED TO BE A BASS!
99.9% of gigs requiring a Bass Guitar will never require something beyond 5 or 6 strings from the Bassist!
It's become a "pissing contest" as someone pointed out earlier.
Simple.

Yeah, but what if you break 5 strings? A 5-string bassist would be screwed. At least if you have 9 strings, you still have a 4-string bass.

- Dave

 

[therealting]

Yeah, but what if you break 5 strings? A 5-string bassist would be screwed. At least if you have 9 strings, you still have a 4-string bass.

It depends which 5 you break.

I've never broken more than one string at a gig, and even that only happened once.

 

[niomosy]

OK, let's try to make this as simple as possible:
IT'S SUPOSED TO BE A BASS!
99.9% of gigs requiring a Bass Guitar will never require something beyond 5 or 6 strings from the Bassist!
It's become a "pissing contest" as someone pointed out earlier.
Simple.

It's still a bass guitar. It still has all the same strings a "standard" bass has. It just has more of them. It doesn't matter whether or not you have extra strings. All that should matter is if you can play the songs.

It's not a pissing contest so long as a person needs that extra string to the instrument needed to make the desired music.

 

[jvbjr]

We are at a time in history where the concept of what a "bass" is is being challanged by these creations.

I think 5 string basses are here to stay, the 6+ crowd is still very undecided IMO. What % of overall basses produced fall into the 6+ category? I'd venture to say less than 5%, and that is for any bass over 5 strings, not just 6s. This little community is not representative of normal bass sales, like many highly specialized boards the cream of the crop is the norm, not the exception.

I feel that with the vast competition at this time, builders are building these basses for advertising purposes more than an expectation of selling a lot of 9 string basses in 2005. Create a buzz about your product line, throw something like the Dodge Viper out there to get people talking about you.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

I feel that with the vast competition at this time, builders are building these basses for advertising purposes more than an expectation of selling a lot of 9 string basses in 2005. Create a buzz about your product line, throw something like the Dodge Viper out there to get people talking about you.

I don't know-I can only recall hearing of one or two 8+ string basses that weren't custom-built for a particular customer.

 

[jvbjr]

I don't know-I can only recall hearing of one or two 8+ string basses that weren't custom-built for a particular customer.

So you are making my point for me, thank you.

These oddballs are not built for stocking merchandise, just as the weird outfits you see on fashion runways will never be for sale at Macy's. If Trump's fiance wants a $100,000 dress they will make it for her, but the buyers for Macy's and JCPenney's will stick to buying the under $1500 dresses for store merchandise.

The Dodge dealer near me told me having a Viper in his showroom for two years doubled his foot traffic, it was for sale for $75,000, no one ever bought it, it is still there. By having a Viper in stock, the dealer created a buzz and people came looked at the Viper and left in a new Neon.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

So you are making my point for me, thank you.

These oddballs are not built for stocking merchandise, just as the weird outfits you see on fashion runways will never be for sale at Macy's. If Trump's fiance wants a $100,000 dress they will make it for her, but the buyers for Macy's and JCPenney's will stick to buying the under $1500 dresses for store merchandise.

The Dodge dealer near me told me having a Viper in his showroom for two years doubled his foot traffic, it was for sale for $75,000, no one ever bought it, it is still there. By having a Viper in stock, the dealer created a buzz and people came looked at the Viper and left in a new Neon.

I just meant that I don't think most luthiers are building them just for advertising purposes. If it happens as a side effect, then that's great, but I believe their intentions are just to make the bass requested for the customer.

Don't forget about Conklin though-his seven-strings were certainly oddballs when they came out. Now the less expensive and quite popular Groove Tools line has made sevens accessable to everyone, so who knows.

 

[PhatBasstard]

It's still a bass guitar...... .

No it's not. It's a Bass Harp at this point.

 

[PhatBasstard]

So you are making my point for me, thank you.

These oddballs are not built for stocking merchandise, just as the weird outfits you see on fashion runways will never be for sale at Macy's. If Trump's fiance wants a $100,000 dress they will make it for her, but the buyers for Macy's and JCPenney's will stick to buying the under $1500 dresses for store merchandise.

The Dodge dealer near me told me having a Viper in his showroom for two years doubled his foot traffic, it was for sale for $75,000, no one ever bought it, it is still there. By having a Viper in stock, the dealer created a buzz and people came looked at the Viper and left in a new Neon.

Beautiful, logical analogy...though many won't see it.

 

[PhatBasstard]

Bottom line, if it floats your boat, great. Knock yourself out.

But I play a lot of high dollar, high profile corporate gigs where the band leaders wouldn't even let you on stage with it.........because they need a "Bassist".

I'm not "Joe Fusion" (which I'm guessing many of you who own these things are), but I have my fair share of chops and I'll groove with anybody and I guarantee there are things I am required to play on my everyday, real world gigs that would be physically impossible to play on those basses (no one has fingers that small) due to string spacing and dampening issues.

Now, before anybody says "Well I can play things on my ** string that you can't play on your 5 or 6 because of your limited range", let me tell you you'd be right, but no one wants to hear me playing in that range.....because they want a "Bassist".

There's already a guitarist on stage.

 

[oversoul]

What if he calls in sick??

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

But I play a lot of high dollar, high profile corporate gigs where the band leaders wouldn't even let you on stage with it.........because they need a "Bassist".

I'm not "Joe Fusion" (which I'm guessing many of you who own these things are), but I have my fair share of chops and I'll groove with anybody and I guarantee there are things I am required to play on my everyday, real world gigs that would be physically impossible to play on those basses (no one has fingers that small) due to string spacing and dampening issues.

I'm sure Vanessa Williams plays a lot more high-paying corporate gigs than you do, and her bassist goes on stage with a 9-string. And if he couldn't handle the string spacing and dampening issues, which if you've seen him play you wouldn't question, he wouldn't bring it on stage. So I'm also sure the things you are required to play could be easily accomplished by him, and many others to come. I don't even know what techniques you'd be required to play that you think couldn't be played on a ERB-what, wrapping your thumb around the top of the neck?

 

[Boldaz-Lepton]

I Think that ERBs are here to stay, probably not the 12 stringers but the 6s, the 7s etc. are.

To me the important thing is not wether you can hold a groove on a 9 stringer or what kinds of gigs will you get or lose because you play such an odd instrument. What is important to me is the player`s mastering of the instrument.

I don`t want to step on anyone`s toes here, but "mastering" a 4 or 5 string bass is pretty hard as it is and I don´t think that most people who play these ER instruments play them the way they could be played.

Many of the things I`ve heard from people who play ERBs are just tracks that are kind of testing the boundaries of electric bass technique on these new instruments (particularly slapping and tapping), as is often the case, music has taken the back seat and technique is the driving force...

I think there`s a lot of "hey look at me I have a 9 string bass, I`m a breaking through!", which is fine, but IMO with time, these instruments will force players to develop a different approach to playing music altogether, and to me, that`s what s really important here...

 

[mark beem]

I don`t want to step on anyone`s toes here, but "mastering" a 4 or 5 string bass is pretty hard as it is and I don´t think that most people who play these ER instruments play them the way they could be played.

Oh boy, there's that "M" word again... So how do you know when you've "mastered" the 4 or 5 string?

 

[Boldaz-Lepton]

Oh boy, there's that "M" word again... So how do you know when you've "mastered" the 4 or 5 string?

You`re right, I apologize... the "M" concept is very subjective

What I meant was that learning to play an instrument, any instrument, is quite a difficult thing and my point is that (IMHO, of course) these are not basses with extra strings but different instruments that require a different approach to be played.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

You`re right, I apologize... the "M" concept is very subjective

What I meant was that learning to play an instrument, any instrument, is quite a difficult thing and my point is that (IMHO, of course) these are not basses with extra strings but different instruments that require a different approach to be played.

Very true about the different approach. If you've seen pics of Garry Goodman playing his 11-string, his hands are in some positions that are pretty unique for playing bass. You can play all the normal techniques (except for the Louis Johnson 'fist wrapped around the neck" style maybe ), but there's a lot more potential for new techniques.

Of course, the difficulty of learning these new things is all relative. For me, I could probably learn to play and properly mute an 11-string bass before I could learn to play simple separate rhythm and melody simultaneously on a piano, a skill which is very basic for most pianists but a concept my brain has a hard time comprehending.

 

[MikeBass]

If you have to have that many strings to express yourself and make your statment, then so be it.

I don't get it, nor will I anytime soon. For myself, and just for myself, I think they are silly. (for me-not you, so don't kill me!!)

Most of the cats I've heard play them really shouldn't be playing anything more than maybe a five string at most, but will be the first ones to stand up for 12 string basses. Good for them I say! But at least lean to play something first!!

I'm actually sick of this argument, play what the hell you want, 4 to 12 strings, as long as you get the job done.

As for Vanessa Williams (Al Caldwell) bassist using a 9 or what ever string bass, good for him.

For me the only thing impressive about playing one of those basses is when you have to just play in the money frets (1 thru 5 or 6) on something that stinkin' wide!!

Bill Dickens and Al Caldwell are the only two that I've heard thus far that go beyond the 6 string range that can play. But even then when Bill does his slap thing it sounds like a typwriter going haywire that high up.

Please point me to some ERB players that are actually doing something other than arguing the point of the basses. If the guy is killin' it and doesn't use the bass, then whats the point?? "So and so uses a 9 string"- but he stays in "normal" range doesn't qualify. So help me out here!

There are a few guys here in Detroit who would fit right in on this thread who again, should save themselves some trouble wrangling that neck.

I just read my own post. Please understand, I'm not dumping on the cats who own/play ERB's. I just don't get it myself.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

Well, there's John Turner....

There's also Melvin Lee Davis, Jean Baudin of Nuclear Rabbit (9-stringer for years, and getting an 11), and I forgot his name at the moment, but there's a French bassist using 8-string Noguras. These are guys really doing something with their ERBs, although there's many others.

 

[Bernie Connors]

Well, there's John Turner....

There's also Melvin Lee Davis, Jean Baudin of Nuclear Rabbit (9-stringer for years, and getting an 11), and I forgot his name at the moment, but there's a French bassist using 8-string Noguras. These are guys really doing something with their ERBs, although there's many others.

Yves Carbonne is his name.

If anyone wants to hear a real funky groove on an ERB, go to AccuGroove's wepbage and go to the artists section. Click on Stewart McKinsey and listen to his audio clip. Prepare to be blown away. Stew lays down the funk on that one.