New: Zoom B3n Multi-Effects

[Andy Holland]

Let me go out on a limb and say that you haven't read the owner's manual yet?

View attachment 1859122

I had @jimfist, but I've also just seen the error of my ways!
It was the lack of the word copy that had me bamboozled. I can take my dunce hat off now

 

[jimfist]

I had @jimfist, but I've also just seen the error of my ways!
It was the lack of the word copy that had me bamboozled. I can take my dunce hat off now

I'm a bad person. I couldn't resist breaking your balls. Apologies. I'd suggest that once you've created your "core" patch to your liking, that you save it (first, to it's existing location), and then proceed to use SAVE to copy that "core" patch to the new locations (manually on the pedal). Or, you could hook up to GuitarLab, do a backup/save of the "core" patch, and then load it to the new locations (and rename them). Not sure which way is better or less cumbersome.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

Hello chaps, just upgraded from the B3 to the B3n and turned it on for the first time this evening. Can't see anywhere to copy patches, or when using the guitar lab, to edit and load patches from there - as would be possible with the B3 and the zoom editor software.
Does everything have to be done on the pedal and can patches be copied?

When it comes to creating a bunch of duplicate patches, I prefer to do it in Guitar Lab.

It also helps to keep everything straight if you out descriptive text about each patch variant in GL.

After you connect, the first step is to back your patches up.

Then click on the triangle button in the right-hand pane to expand that backup set.

Drag and drop the desired patch from the backup list, to as few or as many slots as you want.

You can also use the drag and drop function to reset a favourite patch to its normal settings if you have to edit it during a performance. Or reset the whole machine using the Restore function.

Once a patch is in the desired slot, just double-click on the patch description or patch name fields in order to edit that info, ie; change HotSVT to HotSVT 2.

However, you can't edit the FX settings within a patch in Guitar Lab. That has to be done on the pedal.

Hint: To go back and forth between Guitar Lab and patch editing on the pedal, just toggle PC mode:

• Plug in the USB cable with GL running.
• The B3n automatically switches to PC mode.
• Edit your lists, backup or restore, etc.
• In order to tweak some patches, click on the Eject button.
• Pedal switches to normal mode.
• When you're finished editing and want to back up your new settings, just pull the USB cable for a moment, and re-insert.
• Guitar Lab will see the change of state, and auto-connect.
• Now you can back up your patches, edit descriptions etc., again.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

One thing I've noticed with the B3n is that it plays well with my VT Bass DI. With my MS-60b I can hear the digital noise very clearly in the signal. The B3n doesn't produce that.

What power supply are you using with the MS-60B?

I'm getting no noise with mine, but I'm using a Boss PSA-120S. It's one of those skinny digital wall warts, the high-output version of the regular PSA120. It comes with a honking great ferrite on the cable, which may explain why there's no unwanted noises.

Maybe this is why Zoom started throwing in the AD16 with the latest pedals- to make sure that everyone was using a compatible supply.

 

[mattattack187]

What power supply are you using with the MS-60B?

I'm getting no noise with mine, but I'm using a Boss PSA-120S. It's one of those skinny digital wall warts, the high-output version of the regular PSA120. It comes with a honking great ferrite on the cable, which may explain why there's no unwanted noises.

Maybe this is why Zoom started throwing in the AD16 with the latest pedals- to make sure that everyone was using a compatible supply.

Voodoo Lab PP2.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

Is there anyone who compared the B3n to a Line 6 POD X3? Can't find any comparison vid's. I can get a X3 Live in good shape second hand for the same price as a new B3n. Can't decide between the two. I'm a guitar player too so I like the fact that I can use the X3 for both Bass and Guitar. But Bass is my main instrument and from the reviews I get the impression that the B3n is the better sounding unit of these two.

I had the bass pack on my POD Live XT. It was pretty expensive for an add-on pack, and the patches all sounded a bit dark and murky. Not as good as the latest Zoom modelling.

Also, you didn't have as much freedom with pedal placement and multiples of the same type of effect.

AFAIK, they didn't offer the Bass Pack for the X3 Live. I tried programming a friend's X3, but the guitar-based models didn't play well with bass- they were too accurate to the mid hump and lack of low end that's common with a lot of guitar gear.

I play 5-string, so I may be pickier about the bottom half-octave than most. At minimum, I would recommend that you try the X3 with your regular bass rig before you commit.

Another option would be to look at the G3n and G5n instead of the B3n. There's a bunch of us using the G5n for bass, and it adapts very well, thanks to the way Zoom is tailoring their Cab IR's and effects. Also, with recent updates, a few of the effects are now common between the Gn and Bn series in Guitar Lab.

Here's a sample of one of jimfist's "angry SVT" rock tones, using a Highwatt stack on the G5n:

Zoom B5n Multi-Effects?

 

[steve_rolfeca]

Voodoo Lab PP2.

I wonder what would happen if you tried the AD-16 with your MS60B?

 

[Wilmar Boer]

I had the bass pack on my POD Live XT. It was pretty expensive for an add-on pack, and the patches all sounded a bit dark and murky. Not as good as the latest Zoom modelling.

Also, you didn't have as much freedom with pedal placement and multiples of the same type of effect.

AFAIK, they didn't offer the Bass Pack for the X3 Live. I tried programming a friend's X3, but the guitar-based models didn't play well with bass- they were too accurate to the mid hump and lack of low end that's common with a lot of guitar gear.

I play 5-string, so I may be pickier about the bottom half-octave than most. At minimum, I would recommend that you try the X3 with your regular bass rig before you commit.

Another option would be to look at the G3n and G5n instead of the B3n. There's a bunch of us using the G5n for bass, and it adapts very well, thanks to the way Zoom is tailoring their Cab IR's and effects. Also, with recent updates, a few of the effects are now common between the Gn and Bn series in Guitar Lab.

Here's a sample of one of jimfist's "angry SVT" rock tones, using a Highwatt stack on the G5n:

Zoom B5n Multi-Effects?

That sample sounds good! To my knowledge the X3 has all the original Bass Pack models included from the original Bass Pod. I play 5 string too (Yamaha TRBX 505).

 

[steve_rolfeca]

That sample sounds good! To my knowledge the X3 has all the original Bass Pack models included from the original Bass Pod. I play 5 string too (Yamaha TRBX 505).

Another one of jimstrings' clips on the B5 thread, was a comparison with his AxeFXII. They were pretty close, but I preferred the Zoom.

Back to Line 6: According to what I've been told, there are differences in the way the Bass Pod XT hardware was configured. Compressors lost their attack and release settings on the way over into the X3, biamping options went away, etc.

It's funny, but the X3 was supposed to have better DACS than the previous Line 6 product, and the ability to blend dual tones together was definitely pretty cool on guitar.

However, it still wasn't happening for me on bass. YMMV.

To my ear, the new Zoom samples are well ahead of the old Line 6 stuff, and nearly up there with the Helix LT.

 

[Johno Dunn]

What power supply are you using with the MS-60B?

I'm getting no noise with mine, but I'm using a Boss PSA-120S. It's one of those skinny digital wall warts, the high-output version of the regular PSA120. It comes with a honking great ferrite on the cable, which may explain why there's no unwanted noises.

Maybe this is why Zoom started throwing in the AD16 with the latest pedals- to make sure that everyone was using a compatible supply.

My B3n and MS60B power source.

 

[Wilmar Boer]

Some are using the G5n. As a guitarist I like that idea. But it doesn't seem to have Bass models. Or the other way around, the B3n doesn't seem to have guitar models. I like the idea that I can use a Line 6 X3 for both. Is that possible with the Zoom series, for instance by downloading models?

 

[steve_rolfeca]

Some are using the G5n. As a guitarist I like that idea. But it doesn't seem to have Bass models. Or the other way around, the B3n doesn't seem to have guitar models. I like the idea that I can use a Line 6 X3 for both. Is that possible with the Zoom series, for instance by downloading models?

Zoom doesn't offer cross-grade downloads. Although many pedals are shared between the B and G lines, the bass-specific amps, cabs and pedals are greyed out in Guitar Lab.

Hopefully Zoom will change this at some point, as other developers aren't offering any 3rd-party solutions at this time.

My advice would be to not let that stop you. The G5n works very well for bass, but if the HiWatt head doesn't work as an SVT alternative for you, there's always the SVT, B15n, SWR, Markbass, etc., in the MS-60B, at only $100 US.

Personally, I've pretty much decided to streamline down to just the G5n.

I am an audio technician by trade, so of course I bench-tested my G5n when I got it. In this case, it was quite interesting. It turns out that Zoom took some useful liberties when they were sampling the various cabs.

For example, the 4x12's capture the midrange character that we expect from Marshall vs Bogner, etc., but the low bass extension rivals extended-range cabs like the Greenboy fEarful!

My low B has never sounded better.

Ditto for many of the guitar pedals. The subsonics in some of the octave and pitch effects are huge, and you don't need special bass versions of many of the popular guitar pedals, because Zoom has already done the work for you. There's no bass loss with the latest versions of the RC Boost, EP Stomp, etc.

This makes crafting bass tones on the G5n a breeze. I have the G5n, MS-60B and B3n, but for most of my patches, I prefer the MS412 in the G5n over the bass cabs in the others.

This is great for bassists who want to just carry one multi-FX to the gig, but I expect it was originally done for expediency- partly to streamline production, but also to accommodate down-tuned guitars.

You can see it in Guitar Lab, and also in the upgrade program. They modded several of the pedal samples to make them common to both lines, and this happened right around the time of the B3n's launch and update packs.

As with the MS-50G, MS-60B, G3n, etc., you don't really get the full experience with the G5n until you load the latest firmware and updates.

Compared to what you got at launch, the increased DSP processing power, shared devices between the bass and guitar versions, new amps and cabs, etc., make this a very different product as of the middle of 2017.

My MS-60B languished on the shelf for over 2 years, because the promised updates never came, but from the way they've been blowing out hundreds of free new patches and effects for some of the older pedals as well as the new ones, it looks like Zoom is finally out of their slump.

I hope that this new investment pays off in spades for them...

 

[Wilmar Boer]

Zoom doesn't offer cross-grade downloads. Although many pedals are shared between the B and G lines, the bass-specific amps, cabs and pedals are greyed out in Guitar Lab.

Hopefully Zoom will change this at some point, as other developers aren't offering any 3rd-party solutions at this time.

My advice would be to not let that stop you. The G5n works very well for bass, but if the HiWatt head doesn't work as an SVT alternative for you, there's always the SVT, B15n, SWR, Markbass, etc., in the MS-60B, at only $100 US.

Personally, I've pretty much decided to streamline down to just the G5n.

I am an audio technician by trade, so of course I bench-tested my G5n when I got it. In this case, it was quite interesting. It turns out that Zoom took some useful liberties when they were sampling the various cabs.

For example, the 4x12's capture the midrange character that we expect from Marshall vs Bogner, etc., but the low bass extension rivals extended-range cabs like the Greenboy fEarful!

My low B has never sounded better.

Ditto for many of the guitar pedals. The subsonics in some of the octave and pitch effects are huge, and you don't need special bass versions of many of the popular guitar pedals, because Zoom has already done the work for you. There's no bass loss with the latest versions of the RC Boost, EP Stomp, etc.

This makes crafting bass tones on the G5n a breeze. I have the G5n, MS-60B and B3n, but for most of my patches, I prefer the MS412 in the G5n over the bass cabs in the others.

This is great for bassists who want to just carry one multi-FX to the gig, but I expect it was originally done for expediency- partly to streamline production, but also to accommodate down-tuned guitars.

You can see it in Guitar Lab, and also in the upgrade program. They modded several of the pedal samples to make them common to both lines, and this happened right around the time of the B3n's launch and update packs.

As with the MS-50G, MS-60B, G3n, etc., you don't really get the full experience with the G5n until you load the latest firmware and updates.

Compared to what you got at launch, the increased DSP processing power, shared devices between the bass and guitar versions, new amps and cabs, etc., make this a very different product as of the middle of 2017.

My MS-60B languished on the shelf for over 2 years, because the promised updates never came, but from the way they've been blowing out hundreds of free new patches and effects for some of the older pedals as well as the new ones, it looks like Zoom is finally out of their slump.

I hope that this new investment pays off in spades for them...

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I think I've got to go to a shop now and try some stuff. Maybe I get it the other way around, getting an B3n and add a MS-50G for guitar. I'm a bass player in the first place.

 

[jimfist]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I think I've got to go to a shop now and try some stuff. Maybe I get it the other way around, getting an B3n and add a MS-50G for guitar. I'm a bass player in the first place.

@steve_rolfeca makes some very good points in his last post. I, too, own and gig the G5n and B3n for bass, and enjoy both. I will say that I think the B3n has done a pretty good job with the amps, cabs and pedals specifically, that aren't included in the G5n. We all wish that a "B5n" were offered, or that ZOOM would offer some cross-compatibility across the product line, but that's not the case.

I'd say that, in general, if you've got the skill and patience, you can get pretty much whatever you'd want out of either pedal, though it may take you more time to dial in a worthy guitar tone on the B3n, and vice versa on the G5n/G3n for bass. But certainly it can be done, and Steve and I are both living proof that it not only can be done, but quite successfully so.

I like the B3n for very simple gigs where I don't need to do much footwork. I like the G5n for gigs where I'm bringing effects in-and-out during songs a lot of the time. The added features of the G5n are a real pleasure (tuner, exp pedal, vol/tone knobs, etc.) so that I'm doing less tap-dancing and guessing on the pedal board.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I think I've got to go to a shop now and try some stuff. Maybe I get it the other way around, getting an B3n and add a MS-50G for guitar. I'm a bass player in the first place.

The B3n is an excellent pedal, and the form factor is great.

Some of the things that kept it out of my gig bag are unique to my situation:

1. I use a volume pedal on bass, which partly negates the size advantage.
2. My budget is limited, and I was able to pick up a used G5n for less than a B3n.
3. I already have an MS-60B.
4. I don't want to learn and remember multiple pedal boards. I like to keep things simple...
5. While guitar is only a hobby, that's where I especially need the extra buttons and effects for ambient stuff on the G5n.

Still, that's just me. There are no wrong answers here- just try them all out, and go with whatever works for your priorities.

 

[Jantelagen]

Another one of jimstrings' clips on the B5 thread, was a comparison with his AxeFXII. They were pretty close, but I preferred the Zoom.

Back to Line 6: According to what I've been told, there are differences in the way the Bass Pod XT hardware was configured. Compressors lost their attack and release settings on the way over into the X3, biamping options went away, etc.

It's funny, but the X3 was supposed to have better DACS than the previous Line 6 product, and the ability to blend dual tones together was definitely pretty cool on guitar.

However, it still wasn't happening for me on bass. YMMV.

To my ear, the new Zoom samples are well ahead of the old Line 6 stuff, and nearly up there with the Helix LT.

I understand personal preference, ear, and opinions, but Lol, you're over-selling a bit there aren't ya?!

 

[The Rage]

I understand personal preference, ear, and opinions, but Lol, you're over-selling a bit there aren't ya?!

Not so sure. Based on youtube comparison between g5n and podHD the zoom to me seems to sounds better. Again, is just youtube video, don't know for real... Or there are some particular sounds that one does better than the other.
However, if I understand correctly the biggest difference between pod/helix and N zoom is the ability to separate signals in the same patch, the loops and various connections capabilities that zoom could never dream of.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

I understand personal preference, ear, and opinions, but Lol, you're over-selling a bit there aren't ya?!

Not sure what I over-stated?

I was a long-time POD XT Live user (for guitar, wasn't happy with the bass pack- seemed to have the same congested sound as the LowDown combo amps). I recently borrowed the XT Live back from the buddy I gave it to, and wasn't surprised to find that the Zoom sounded noticeably better, and was easier to use.

Stepping up a price bracket or two, the Headrush looks really interesting to me. I wouldn't kick a Helix out of bed either.

However, I found the X3's and HD300/400/500 a disappointment. Judging from various friends reponses, I wasn't alone in that.

The G5n is definitely not up there with the latest high-end stuff, but amongst the affordable multi-fx, it strikes me as the best bang for the buck at the moment.

Of course, that will probably change come Winter NAMM, as Digitech, Boss et al launch their responses...

 

[steve_rolfeca]

Not so sure. Based on youtube comparison between g5n and podHD the zoom to me seems to sounds better. Again, is just youtube video, don't know for real... Or there are some particular sounds that one does better than the other.
However, if I understand correctly the biggest difference between pod/helix and N zoom is the ability to separate signals in the same patch, the loops and various connections capabilities that zoom could never dream of.

The routing options and the UI on the Headrush and Helix are light-years ahead of the Zooms.

Whole parallel effects chains, different amp sims on either side of a stereo pair, the ability to import 3rd party IR's, drag and drop touch screen on the Headrush, all sorts of effects loop options, customizable lcd labels on the footswitches, etc.

There's also integrated control of PA system functions if you pair the Helix with Line 6's digital PA offering...

But they aren't competing in the $300 bracket, either!

 

[Jazz Ad]

I understand personal preference, ear, and opinions, but Lol, you're over-selling a bit there aren't ya?!

For the record, I much prefer the sound and effects from my B3 to the AxeFX2 I tried side by side.
PODs were miles behind these 2.
I haven't touched the Helix yet though.