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New: Zoom B3n Multi-Effects

#4,021
Everyone, you've been stellar. Jimfist, if you want to put more wind in your bag, you're more than welcome.

I own an Ibanez Sdgr 5 string with active pickups (actually, when trying out my B3n at home for the first time, I noticed I was getting more fuzz than I wanted and had a minor panic attack when I went tuner bypass and it was still there. One battery change later and smooth signalling).

I am loving the way that the bass itself has so much more influence on the tone than in a guitar signal chain. That is cool and the purist musician in me loves it. I love the way bassists can get pro tone with some compression and eq, that's fascinating knowledge to me. I also recall how bassists aren't as snobby about tube amps as guitarists, which falls in line with all this data.

Steve, those starting suggestions are amazing for giving me something to get going, so thank you. With the G5n, I find the Bogner cab is the best "set and forget" cab, I use it with pretty much everything (unless I want a stereotypical Vox AC-30 tone, in which case I go with the Vox cab). With the B3n, it's cool to see people recommending the cabs that go with their heads.

I also like the way that adding effects tends to require the amp/speaker stuff to tame the corresponding harmonic boosts, similar to guitar.

I'll respond with more detail when my coffee kicks in. I read every word and will read it again later.
 
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#4,022
@steve_rolfeca is probably a better source to bridge the transition in logic from guitar to bass, since he actively plays both instruments. I'm no guitarist, though I've helped guitarists program their modeling gear from the ground up - more due to my knowledge of the modelers as they translate guitar to a Full Range/FOH/Monitor system than due to any deep understanding of what makes guitar tone tick, other than some basic knowledge.

Just keep in mind that if you trust your musical instincts, follow them if they've been successful for you. There are lots of ways to get a desirable result, but really only you (and your bandmates) can be the judge of that. If it works, it's all good, whether that involves using amp/cab modeling or a more pure filter/EQ method.

One thing for certain on bass that differentiates it from guitar is this: the ability to wet/dry blend or parallel mix signal paths to create your core tone is much more common and for many, necessary, to come up with the sounds they want to hear.
 
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#4,023
jimfist said:
One thing for certain on bass that differentiates it from guitar is this: the ability to wet/dry blend or parallel mix signal paths to create your core tone is much more common and for many, necessary, to come up with the sounds they want to hear.
Click to expand...

Coming from guitar, wet/dry (in a mono signal) ALWAYS means "apply this to an effect that seems to take away either dynamics or takes away fundamental frequencies that keep you heard in the mix". The Squeak on the G5n (Rat model) is one of my favorite standalone distortions because it has a blend knob and the dry signal combined gives it so much "balls"

I am aware of this on bass for fuzzes, to name the first thing that comes to mind, but I don't know why I'd use it on a, say, cabinet. Looks like experimentation is in order indeed!
 
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#4,024
Moe45673 said:
The Squeak on the G5n (Rat model) is one of my favorite standalone distortions because it has a blend knob and the dry signal combined gives it so much "balls"

I am aware of this on bass for fuzzes, to name the first thing that comes to mind, but I don't know why I'd use it on a, say, cabinet. Looks like experimentation is in order indeed!
Click to expand...

Parallel compression or wet/dry blend is IMO a key to easily fine-tuning bass compression (and compression on a host of other instruments/signals, too.) IIRC, the Diamond Comp (do they call in the Glam Comp?) has this wet/dry blend, but most of the comps don't have that feature. I personally think that they ALL should have a wet/dry mix parameter, but that would force many comps into dual-slot territory. I do wish Zoom would create a mondo dual-slot compressor that featured both wet/dry mix and multi-band compression.
 
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#4,025
jimfist said:
@steve_rolfeca is probably a better source to bridge the transition in logic from guitar to bass, since he actively plays both instruments. I'm no guitarist, though I've helped guitarists program their modeling gear from the ground up - more due to my knowledge of the modelers as they translate guitar to a Full Range/FOH/Monitor system than due to any deep understanding of what makes guitar tone tick, other than some basic knowledge.

Just keep in mind that if you trust your musical instincts, follow them if they've been successful for you. There are lots of ways to get a desirable result, but really only you (and your bandmates) can be the judge of that. If it works, it's all good, whether that involves using amp/cab modeling or a more pure filter/EQ method.

One thing for certain on bass that differentiates it from guitar is this: the ability to wet/dry blend or parallel mix signal paths to create your core tone is much more common and for many, necessary, to come up with the sounds they want to hear.
Click to expand...
Well said Sir!
And don’t sell yourself short I too have appreciated your posts on your insight into the world of modeling tech. You da man! :)
Best wishes,
Brent
 
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#4,027
jimfist said:
Parallel compression or wet/dry blend is IMO a key to easily fine-tuning bass compression (and compression on a host of other instruments/signals, too.) IIRC, the Diamond Comp (do they call in the Glam Comp?) has this wet/dry blend, but most of the comps don't have that feature. I personally think that they ALL should have a wet/dry mix parameter, but that would force many comps into dual-slot territory. I do wish Zoom would create a mondo dual-slot compressor that featured both wet/dry mix and multi-band compression.
Click to expand...

That really would be a fantastic update.
 
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#4,028
What they could do as an update, is an effect which adds parallel direct sound from the beginning of the chain until one point with a mix and eq.
Imagine a patch that includes compressor, eq and distortion then a amp sim , a cab, and a limiter.
We could add that effect module after the distortion to mix and eq direct sound with all the effect until the distortion.
Wouldn't it be great?
 
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#4,029
Oly Spart said:
What they could do as an update, is an effect which adds parallel direct sound from the beginning of the chain until one point with a mix and eq.
Imagine a patch that includes compressor, eq and distortion then a amp sim , a cab, and a limiter.
We could add that effect module after the distortion to mix and eq direct sound with all the effect until the distortion.
Wouldn't it be great?
Click to expand...

Yes, an insert-able parallel path would be great, and be a huge upgrade IMO.
Also, an option to send this "split" feed to the Right output (dry) - with the Left output being full effected signal path - would be a game changer for many to allow for sending one feed to FOH and another to a traditional stage amp.

The B3n has a ton of unrealized possibilities. I'd happily give up on a couple of the delays or reverbs to have greater flexibility in the signal path routing. Other than those who are doing a lot of atmospheric types of things, I think the vast majority of bassists would agree with more flexible routing, too. We can wish, right?
 
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#4,030
steve_rolfeca said:
My advice would be to start with three fairly simple signal chains in the Zoom:
  • An SVT and cab.
  • A compressor into one of the EQ's, followed by a reverb.
  • A compressor into the B15, no cab, followed by one of the EQ's and a reverb.
Click to expand...

Hey, just a quick response, I played around with these as three patches and switched between them. I tweaked them to sound how I like the best (as an imagined "base tone"). I used my DT-990 Pros to listen to the patches and got some really great sounds. I liked what I got out of the SVT best.

I will respond back with more detail in the near future with sound samples for funsies :D
 
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#4,031
Fellow Talkbassians, lend me your ears.

For guitar, I am thinking of buying a Line 6 Powercab (the basic version) for my modeler speaker. I want to hear my modeller sound like an amp onstage but give a direct signal to the soundguy through XLR. I think this is the best compromise out there.

For bass....... how is this done? Does an FRFR provide that pants-flapping that a bass cab does? I own a Little Mark 2 Head and a Gallien Krueger Neo 112 cab. I am fine using my amp as I can carry the whole enchilada in one trip from the car (and go from B3n into the FX return of the head).

I played bass in a band a few years ago and the soundguy at one of our gigs went direct from my amp-head. There was one song I played with heavy fuzz where it went two 16th notes playing the root then silence until the 3-beat, then two 16th notes playing the root of the next chord then silence until the subsequent 1-beat. The rhythm is similar to the intro to Brainstew by Green Day (although the feel of the song as a whole was very different), if that helps.

So big heavy fuzz with clean bottom end, sounded huge through my cab. On the recording which was taken from the PA, my bass sounded buzzy and farted on the low notes. Horrid. Clearly I needed cab simulation of some type.

What do you good folk do?

Btw, I started recording my bass through the B3n, as promised, but then got called away on some domestic bliss errand and I haven't been able to work up the energy to pull out the bass to finish the soundclips. Additionally, I only own a headset mic (owned an SM-58 but it's probably lost in storage somewhere) so I'll have to record my explanations of what you're hearing separately and through my realtek audio driver, which means more post-production than it's likely worth. Getting home late from work is not conducive to keeping up the music chops :(
 
#4,032
Moe45673 said:
For bass....... how is this done? Does an FRFR provide that pants-flapping that a bass cab does?
Click to expand...

Yes, it can, but that depends on the amp and full-range cabinets used. I've only used full range cabinets for live performance for about the last 8 years, but I also didn't squeeze my bank account to reach this solution for cabinets. I also used to own a PA rental company and did a lot of live mixing, so I'm always looking at quality PA and monitor cabinets for live use.

Here's what I did: I bought smaller, full-range flat response cabinets (The Atomic CLR) to use for dialing in my tones since they are very accurate cabinets, and very flat across the spectrum above 80hz. From there I employ whatever full range cabinet suits the gig.

If the PA system is doing the heavy lifting amplifying your bass tone, if there are ample stage monitors, then really the bass sound on stage is just for you and your kicks. In this case, you only need enough to be happy, but not so much as to make your bandmates give you "the look", or to dominate the stage with low end rumble. If other band members want to hear more of you, that's what the monitor system is for. This helps keep the stage volume interference with the PA system to a minimum.

In cases where my stage rig must carry a room, I use full range cabinets that are designed to do just that. You may find that it's not cheap. In either case, I always use an amp head with EQ for my stage rig so that I can tune it to the stage and room. Thus an amp head with a good neutral clean tone is a good thing to have. I always pull my DI feed to the PA from the B3n/modeler BEFORE it hits my stage rig. That way, anything I do to my stage tone has zero impact on the feed to the PA. The key, though, is to set up your tones so that they sound really good through a full-range PA system at gig volume. That takes time, trial and error, and/or lots of experience.

The short answer is to get yourself a pair of powered PA cabinets that have reasonably extended low end, which may require a 15"-based woofer. There are a number of choices from all the familiar nambes (EV, Yamaha, JBL, Mackie, Turbosound) in the $500+ each price range that will get you there. No two ways around it, for bass, you have to have a bit more power driving things if you do want the "pant leg rattling" to happen.
 
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#4,034
New 2.1 firmware for B3n. The only info I found is:

"Released as following bug fix in April 2019
1. USB connection is sometimes disabled after a certain period of time."

Be aware that this firmware version is not actually supported by ToneLib

Also GuitarLab have been updated to GuitarLab_Win_v4.1.0.60_E but my antivirus detected a trojan.Win32.inject.almyv in the installation files...
Anyway, change log is:
"Released as following bug fix in April 2019
1. Effect images are sometimes not displayed correctly under certain PC configurations."
 
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#4,037
Silly_Monkey said:
tried to download the Guitar lab to my surface. it keeps detecting my B3n and refreshing nonstop. am I doing something wrong?
Click to expand...
When this happens, click on the internet tab.
Then go back to editor, you will see your B3n.
And /or do a test by installing tonelib which is a free editor for Zoom devices, that does not have this problem. If it doesn't work with tonelib, check connections, as the problem is most probably on your side.
ToneLib – Complete guitar studio in your computer
BTW, with tonelib, you have access to free sharing patches.
 
#4,040
-Asdfgh- said:
That sounds like the acoustic instrument? Overdrive and slow attack. Or buy a cello. Or use a GK-3B and a synth.
Click to expand...

P.S. Obviously slow attack is only going to be for something legato. The GK-3B route is only going to allow you to play samples, although they might include dynamic changes. Really the best option is a cello. I tried a cello bow on my bass but without rosin it didn't make a sound and I am not sure I want rosin on my strings as well unless I can find some cheap flats as it's still going to gum those up, I would expect. I'm building (eventually) a 34 inch scale EUB, and will probably put TruBass on it.
 

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