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NFL Week #1
- Thread starter mrpackerguy
- Start date
jive1
Commercial User
Eagles went to the conf champs in 2001,2002,2003,2008 and won it in 2004. McNabb took them to the playoffs 8 of the 10 years he was a full-time starter.
He had DeShaun for 2 seasons, and TO for 1.5. His leading receivers prior to that were Kevin Curtis, Todd Pinkston, James Thrash, Chad Lewis (a TE), and Reggie Brown. None of those were 1000 yd receivers. McNabb had one season where he was the leading rusher for the team with just over 600 yards, and they still made the playoffs. He has oly had a 1000 yd rusher 3 times in his career in Philly.
Seriously, he carried that team on his shoulders. If he were on a better offense during his prime, he'd probably be considered elite. On the other hand, Vick inherited a team that was loaded with weapons, with even more added this off-season.
It doesn't matter. The guys from Michigan have spoken, McNabb was never really a good QB.
-Mike
-Mike
jive1
Commercial User
This is true, and pretty much why I wrote them both off when they started in on how average or below average he "really" was.
On a Bears note....how did Gabe Carimi look yesterday?
-Mike
On a Bears note....how did Gabe Carimi look yesterday?
-Mike
What a nail biter of a game last night in the Meadowlands. I hate having to admit this, but Dallas looked quite good last night against the Jets. Especially, their offensive and defensive lines.
Good news for Bucs fans though. Every team in the division is 0-1, so you're boys are still tied for first place.
Good news for Bucs fans though. Every team in the division is 0-1, so you're boys are still tied for first place.
He was good, just not top 5 good.
More like 6-10 range good.
Kurt Warner, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Brett Favre
jive1
Commercial User
He looked better in pre-season. Granted Edwards and Abraham are good edge rushers, but Carimi looked a little lost. RT is a new position for him, so hopefully he can pick it up soon. A couple of sacks were from Cutler holding onto the ball too long, but the tackles Webb and Carimi need to step it up and give Cutler some protection so he can roll out. The guys in the middle did well in getting some push, creating a pocket, and giving Cutler some room to step up.
I don't want to pull up the QB's from the entire range of years you listed, so I'll go with 2001 and 2003. Here are starting QB's from the 2001 and 2003 seasons that started at least 13 games. Which five are better than McNabb?
2001
Jon Kitna
Kerry Collins
Brad Johnson
Aaron Brooks
Rich Gannon
Peyton Manning
Kurt Warner
Chris Weinke
Jake Plummer
Trent Green
Doug Flutie
Brett Favre
Jeff Garcia
Mark Brunell
Elvis Grbac
Tim Couch
Brian Griese
Jay Fiedler
Kordell Stewart
Steve McNair
Tom Brady
Jim Miller
Tony Banks
Chris Chandler
Matt Hasselbeck
2003
Brad Johnson
Peyton Manning
Joey Harrington
Marc Bulger
Tom Brady
Trent Green
Jon Kitna
Tommy Maddox
Aaron Brooks
Matt Hasselbeck
Quincy Carter
Kerry Collins
Drew Bledsoe
Brett Favre
Daunte Culpepper
Jake Delhomme
Byron Leftwhich
Jeff Blake
Jeff Garcia
Steve McNair
-Mike
That was a bunch of cutting and pasting for something I really don't care about in the end. 
-Mike
-Mike
Interesting leaving out 2002...
Lets look at all of 2001-2003 QBs who started at least 13 games. I'll go with the following being better during those three seasons:
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Kurt Warner
Drew Brees
Brett Favre
Steve McNair
Daunte Culpepper
I had to. My stats were for guys who started 13 games or more. McNabb broke his ankle at the start of game 10 in 2002, still played the game, then was out the rest of the season. Speaking of.....80% accuracy and four TD's on an ankle broken in three spots? Yeah, he isn't that good is he?
-Mike
Man, I'm a Titans homer, but McNabb was a better QB than McNair. McNair was tough as nails and a fight to the end player, but his numbers are a shadow of Donny Macs.
It sucks having to say that.
It sucks having to say that.
He is good - probably the 6th ot 7th best QB in the league during his prime, and for the entirety of his career definitely a top 10 QB in the league.
I just don't buy him in the top 5.
Peyton Manning - definitely better than McNabb
Tom Brady - definitely better than McNabb
Kurt Warner -definitely better than McNabb
Drew Brees - definitely better than McNabb
Brett Favre - has better career stats, has better peak stats, and had better stats DURING McNabbs peak years.
Steve McNair - had better stats DURING McNabbs peak years.
Daunte Culpepper - had better stats DURING McNabbs peak years.
I can see MAYBE putting him ahead of the last two if we're only looking at McNabb's peak years.
Are we comparing the 2001-2003 Drew Brees to the 2009-2011 McNabb ?
If you add the plays McNabb made with his feet McNair or Culpepper was never better the # 5
Manning, Favre,Brady and maybe Brees are Hall of Famers
If you add the plays McNabb made with his feet McNair or Culpepper was never better the # 5
Manning, Favre,Brady and maybe Brees are Hall of Famers
jive1
Commercial User
Culpepper had Moss and an awesome O-Line. The peak of his career was hucking it long and having Moss make a circus catch. Randall Cunningham and Jeff George did well with it too. During that span they missed the playoffs every year, and only had a winning record once.
Warner had Faulk, Holt, Bruce and the greatest show on turf. When he went to NYG without that talent, he tanked. He got revived in AZ with Boldin and Fitzgerald.
Brady, like McNabb didn't have the supporting cast. He did well with Antowain Smith running the ball, and Troy Brown as his top receiver. However, in 2001, both Brown and Smith had 1000 yd seasons.
McNair had Derrick Mason and Eddie George in their prime.
Peyton Manning had Edgerrin James and Marvin Harrison playing at the top of their game, and an emerging Reggie Wayne.
Brees in SD was average. He didn't become elite until he got to NO. He only had 1 winning season during that span, including a 4-12 effort. He had LT in his prime back then to take some pressure off.
Favre did make his players better, especially his receivers, but during that span he did have Ahman Green at the top of his game and decent receivers (at the time) like Javon Walker and Donald Driver.
McNabb during that span had a fading Duce Staley, with Todd Pinkston and James Thrash as his top WRs. Yet they still made the playoffs with a winning record every season.
Which of these names do not belong with the others?
Edgerrin James, Torry Holt, Issac Bruce, Marshall Faulk, Eddie George, Derrick Mason, Randy Moss, LaDanian Tomlinson, Marvin Harrison, Ahman Green, Duce Staley, Todd Pinkson, James Thrash
Aside from a Romo melt down at the end ( so predictable ) Revis and Cromartie got burned plenty. Romo was throwing it all over the yard on them. Dez punked Revis hard a few times and actually man handled him out there.
Jags won by 2 points. Pretty sure that's not a pounding in anyones book. Aside from a missed tackle that let MJD bust a 22 yard run he was still under 100 yards and the Titans were in it till the end. CJ not showing up to play hurt like hell. But I liked what I saw of Matt, Kenny and Washington. Mariani needs to pull his head out. You gotta catch that punt man ... c'mon.
Falcons looked pretty shell shocked for sure, but not ready? It's game oneWe'll hold that assessment until mid season when the shortened practice time is no longer a factor. I understand everyone had the same amount of time, but some teams went through pretty serious changes this off season. It takes time to get continuity.
Hard to argue with Buffalo. Fitz was a full grown man out there. He's making a point that last year was no fluke. I trusted what I saw last year enough to draft him in a keeper league. I love him with a full season of Gailey's offense under his belt.
It was a pretty entertaining week 1 so far. I enjoyed the Sunday Ticket freebie, actually getting to watch the Titans play is a rare treat for me. Too bad they lost. Ah well, dems da breaks.
The Jags ran all over the Titans. Pocket Herc pounded them if you compare his input to the game versus CJ's...
For me, I have to look beyond a pile of numbers when coming up with my top five or ten for any position. Stats are part of the equation, but tell half the story for me.
I'll give you Manning and Brady for sure. I'd also give you Favre. The others I am not so sure about when I consider the entire body of work during that time from of 2000-2004.
Kurt Warner piled up huge numbers and won a SB playing on a team with second stringers better than what McNabb had to work with.
I don't know why you included Drew Brees since he wasn't a starter in 2001 and only started 11 in 2003.
McNair I can see being up there too, but not really Culpepper. His teams didn't do much, neither did he really, except for 2004 when his stats were excellent.
-Mike
...and they also had one of the best defenses in the NFL. Yes, their offensive talent wasn't great - but there defense was much better than what those other QBs had.
For 2000-2004:
2000 - 4th ranked D
2001 - 2nd ranked D
2002 - 2nd ranked D
2003 - 7th ranked D
2004 - 2nd ranked D
The WORST defense they had during those years gave up less than 18 point/game.
Say you can pick any of the following QBs knowing you'll get the career that follows. What is your draft order?
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Kurt Warner
Drew Brees
Brett Favre
Steve McNair
Daunte Culpepper
Donovan McNabb
I'd have a real hard time picking McNabb any EARLIER than 5th in that group.
