NFL Week #6

[MJ5150]

With no Super Bowl win? DESTROYED by the Jags in the very last game of his career?

You got it.

-Mike

 

[Jimmy Bones]

That was one of my favorite games to watch. Poor Miami took it hard.

Not like the Jags at Seattle. The real Jags never even showed up.

 

[Gard]

Good point. Brees reminds me of Dan Marino. I figure the remainder of Brees career will play out just like Marinos did.



-Mike

Marino didn't have the same type of offense that Brees does (Miami in the 80's and 90's never had a running game to speak of - Brees has the #2 rushing offense in the NFL), and NEVER had defensive support. Marino never was like Brees, totally different players, just similar numbers at times. Brees is more of a short to medium range passer that occasionally hits a deep one; Marino was a "home run hitter" that was always trying to go vertical and usually having to because his defense had let the other team get ahead. Again. Note that Brees is, so far this season, playing from ahead (a new experience, to be sure).

Oh, and Marino had a coach that was 10 years or more out of step with the game, as opposed to one that is on the cutting edge of it.

Also, I've had a couple of run-ins with Danny, my ex's mom was the property manager at the development that he lived in outside of Miami. He's a putz, a difficult, self-absorbed, humorless putz. From what I've been able to get out of some of my friends in NOLA, Brees is a pretty laid-back, approachable dude that really loves the city and cares about the people there.

There is NOTHING about Brees that is reminiscent of Marino, other than he can put up a lot of yards and points when necessary.

When Brees gets his ring, I will be sure to pull this post up, y'know to quote it for the whole humor factor and all.

 

[fo shizzle]

Good point. Brees reminds me of Dan Marino. I figure the remainder of Brees career will play out just like Marinos did.



-Mike

Me, too. I attribute it to the organization he's with more than his talent level.

 

[LilRay]

I still attribute it all to Coaching/Discipline. I say you could plug Romo/Flacco/Ryan hell even Farvuh into NOLA and their sucess level wouldn't change much.

One player no matter which team isn't much.

Our NO Saints honk seems to think they've got some sort of magic blend of players in the dome.

But I say it starts with the Head Coach and his vision and trickles down.

Brees is good, but he's not so great that he's irreplaceable, OR somehow he's so good/cool headed that there's no one better in the league. That's just goofy.

I've yet to hear a response on my point about Payton/Romo.......Where ya at Gard?


God Bless, Ray

 

[john turner]

For the sake of the Saints, I hope you're right. But having had to deal with Shockey, seeing things like this in the media is the start of the problems:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Granted, this particular article is from a NY paper so take it for what it is worth . Plus, Myers isn't my favorite guy. There are other articles, as I find them I'll post up or PM 'em to you.

all i see there is the article writer editorializing like most ny sports "reporters" do, going off on a tirade against this guy. shockey didn't say -anything- that was quoted there that i thought was inappropriate. am i missing something?

 

[Ed Goode]

shockey didn't say -anything- that was quoted there that i thought was inappropriate. am i missing something?

No, I don't think so .... and I did qualify that this column (and other types of similar articles, locally) are written with a NY (in other words, "fan-baiting") viewpoint.

BUT, Shockey could have taken the high road .... didn't work out, looking for a better match, really liked the players there, blah, blah, blah .... however, as is his style, he didn't.

I normally don't quote myself, but I did say ...

But Shockey always had an answer/excuse for his bad behavior. It was never his fault, he was just an innocent victim of the press, management, fans, media, etc. If he had ever manned up and acknowledged his own failings, the story may have had a different ending.

That's really the issue, for me, about Shockey's personality and attitude. Even in his recent LV shennanigans, everything was "overblown .... interpreted the wong way .... the media likes to target me ...." (quotes added for clarity by me, didn't feel like pulling up the actual quotes again).

I don't wish him ill will, and I actually like the Saints, a lot ... 3rd favorite after NYG & PIT. I just can't imagine there being a happy ending with him, although he sure can provide some great playing until it falls apart .....

 

[Gard]

I still attribute it all to Coaching/Discipline. I say you could plug Romo/Flacco/Ryan hell even Farvuh into NOLA and their sucess level wouldn't change much.

One player no matter which team isn't much.

Our NO Saints honk seems to think they've got some sort of magic blend of players in the dome.

But I say it starts with the Head Coach and his vision and trickles down.

Brees is good, but he's not so great that he's irreplaceable, OR somehow he's so good/cool headed that there's no one better in the league. That's just goofy.

I've yet to hear a response on my point about Payton/Romo.......Where ya at Gard?


God Bless, Ray

Who knows Ray, maybe Payton would have been able to address Romo's cranial-rectal inversion syndrome, but since good old Jerry was too "JERRY" to give him a chance, we'll never know now.

 

[john turner]

No, I don't think so .... and I did qualify that this column (and other types of similar articles, locally) are written with a NY (in other words, "fan-baiting") viewpoint.

BUT, Shockey could have taken the high road .... didn't work out, looking for a better match, really liked the players there, blah, blah, blah .... however, as is his style, he didn't.

i don't know this guy, so i don't know if the drama originated with him ala TO, or if it just followed him, and his persoonality just exacerbated it, but yeah, it would be good, in these kinds of cases, for him to break the cycle of tit-for-tat, since obviously nobody else is going to do it.

That's really the issue, for me, about Shockey's personality and attitude. Even in his recent LV shennanigans, everything was "overblown .... interpreted the wong way .... the media likes to target me ...." (quotes added for clarity by me, didn't feel like pulling up the actual quotes again).

seems like they do, at least in new york. maybe it's deserved, maybe not - are they crucifying plaxico? -he- deserves it.

frankly, i'd be ashamed to submit the article that that guy wrote about shockey. that was atrocious, from a sports journalism POV.

 

[Gard]

Me, too. I attribute it to the organization he's with more than his talent level.

...speaking of "organizational issues", you're a Dallas Cowboys fan, right?





I assure you, he has all the support he needs at this point, and they'll drive that home to you on 12/19

 

[Gard]

i don't know this guy, so i don't know if the drama originated with him ala TO, or if it just followed him, and his persoonality just exacerbated it, but yeah, it would be good, in these kinds of cases, for him to break the cycle of tit-for-tat, since obviously nobody else is going to do it.



seems like they do, at least in new york. maybe it's deserved, maybe not - are they crucifying plaxico? frankly, i'd be ashamed to submit the article that that guy wrote about him. that was atrocious, from a sports journalism POV.

Frankly, I thought the Shockey-to-NOLA trade was a bad idea at the time, but having watched CLOSELY as he settled into the team and the system, I am beginning to see it differently.

Shockey is a very driven, passionate dude about football. He expects the best, and he gets a bit demonstrative about it. He needed someone that could help channel his aggression/drive/passion and keep him from losing his focus. He's found that in Brees, IMO, and Eli wasn't the guy for that job, he's either too laid-back, too wimpy, or both to have kept Shockey focused on the straight & narrow.

The writer of that article DEFINITELY was doing his best to paint Shockey as being a malcontent that will cause trouble, but those of us watching him up close right now are seeing someone that is just flat happy with where he is.

How that will turn out if the Saints fall apart later in the season is something I can't speculate on, but they were an 8-8 team last year, and other than one incident on the sidelines where Brees set him straight, and one dumb "kid partying too much" incident in the offseason, you haven't heard much about him, have you? Hmm???

Says something to me.

 

[LilRay]

Who knows Ray, maybe Payton would have been able to address Romo's cranial-rectal inversion syndrome, but since good old Jerry was too "JERRY" to give him a chance, we'll never know now.

True


The boys needed a Payton/Singletary type. Instead we got Bum's (Phillips) "Baby Bubba". The most unenthused coach in the NFL

God Bless, Ray

 

[Gard]

True


The boys needed a Payton/Singletary type. Instead we got Bum's (Phillips) "Baby Bubba". The most unenthused coach in the NFL

God Bless, Ray

I won't hide my glee at what I'm about to say, because I really don't like the Cowpatties:

They will not manage to be a championship-caliber team until either a) Jerry Jones stops micromanaging the team and hires a good quality coach - THEN LETS HIM DO HIS JOB, or b) Jerry dies/sells the team/finally gets committed to a psychiatric hospital and stops ruining anything positive the team manages to achieve by sticking his nose where it has no business being.

Until one of those things happens, expect a lot of promise and potential that gets squandered in Big D, and a lot of mediocre seasons that tend to fall apart toward the end, or end in "one-and-done" playoff appearances.

The Raiders are in the same boat, IMO.

Oh, and I'm speaking from experience, because the Saints put up with that crap from Benson for a long time, but he finally realized he was the problem, not the solution, then turned over the day-to-day running of things to his daughter (Rita Benson-LeBlanc, the president/CEO of the Saints), who is a GOOD personnel manager that knows how to hire the best person available for the job, then let them do what they were hired for.

 

[LilRay]

I won't hide my glee at what I'm about to say, because I really don't like the Cowpatties:

They will not manage to be a championship-caliber team until either a) Jerry Jones stops micromanaging the team and hires a good quality coach - THEN LETS HIM DO HIS JOB, or b) Jerry dies/sells the team/finally gets committed to a psychiatric hospital and stops ruining anything positive the team manages to achieve by sticking his nose where it has no business being.

Until one of those things happens, expect a lot of promise and potential that gets squandered in Big D, and a lot of mediocre seasons that tend to fall apart toward the end, or end in "one-and-done" playoff appearances.

So now you admit that coaching/ownership has a lot to do with a teams success?

Fact is I see a ton of #1 quality players in D, but I attribute their lack of success to the top. It has nothing to do with personal talent level.

God Bless, Ray

 

[Gard]

So now you admit that coaching/ownership has a lot to do with a teams success?

Fact is I see a ton of #1 quality players in D, but I attribute their lack of success to the top. It has nothing to do with personal talent level.

God Bless, Ray

I never said otherwise!

It takes good talent, good coaching, and good business management to have a successful team in the NFL, it always has. If just being a great player were enough, Marino would have had several rings in the 80's and 90's! If excellent coaching and front office personnel weren't necessary, ELEMENTAL, to success, does anyone here really think that the 49ers would have been what they were in the 80's? Montana was a GOOD QB, but the system and the rest of the players around him made that team what it was. The same has been true in Pittsburgh.

I just said that I don't think that Romo is a top quality QB, despite the hype. Could he have been? Maybe, if he had the right leadership, but that never happened, and I think now it's probably a bit too late for him.

The really pathetic thing is that the guy that would have had an excellent change of being exactly what he needed to develop was right there in 2005, but he got passed over for the job.

Thanks Jerry!!!

 

[Gard]

Continuing on the whole "Jeremy Shockey is a jerk" thing, here's a pretty good article in Newsday:

Invalid Link Removed

J Shock looks like he's ready to play football, and leave the rest of the garbage in the past, up in NY...

 

[electracoyote]

Pardon the interruption while we discuss another rivalry.

San Diego has a beat up defense and an anemic running game. Yet, they are a 3-point favorite to beat the Broncos Monday night.

You know the odds makers have lost their shirts over the Broncos already this season, haven't they learned yet?

 

[Gard]

Pardon the interruption while we discuss another rivalry.

San Diego has a beat up defense and an anemic running game. Yet, they are a 3-point favorite to beat the Broncos Monday night.

You know the odds makers have lost their shirts over the Broncos already this season, haven't they learned yet?

Having watched a good bit of both the Chargers and the Broncos this year, I wouldn't bet a nickel on the Chargers in that game.

I think that the oddsmakers are busy remembering how awful the Broncos defense was last year, and can't see anything but the "glory years" for LT right now.

Funny how that happens...

 

[jazzbo]

I never said otherwise!

It takes good talent, good coaching, and good business management to have a successful team in the NFL, it always has. If just being a great player were enough, Marino would have had several rings in the 80's and 90's! If excellent coaching and front office personnel weren't necessary, ELEMENTAL, to success, does anyone here really think that the 49ers would have been what they were in the 80's? Montana was a GOOD QB, but the system and the rest of the players around him made that team what it was. The same has been true in Pittsburgh.

This is another example of TURD's schizophrenic thinking. The argument to your post is that since the "new ownership" of the Dallas Cowboys, they have won 3 Super Bowls. Therefore, by your own admission, Jerry Jones played an important role in that. By your own admission, they would not have been possible without Jerry. By your own argument, he is on the tier of Patriots, Steelers, and past 49ers ownership. He is one of the elite. He is far better than the aints management, or any othe team for that matter.

However, if I had simply said, "Well geez TURD, (and yeah, I would have called you a turd), Jones has won 3 SBs," you would have been one of those people that claimed that it was just Jimmy Johnson, (even though Johnson wasn't so successful with good ownership and talent at the Dolphins).

Your theories twist and bend so easily and so much, I'm going to call you YOGI from now on. No, no, YOGI TURD. Yes, that's your new name.

 

[LilRay]

I never said otherwise!

It's all good, I realize that may have sounded derogotory but that wasn't my intent. My question was more or less to do with Brees' success in NOLA.
It's my opinion that Brees isn't the main reason for the Saints success but rather the entire organization as you delve into below.

I say any decent QB could be placed in Payton's system and succeed, provided he (the QB) was willing to follow Payton's lead .

It takes good talent, good coaching, and good business management to have a successful team in the NFL, it always has. If just being a great player were enough, Marino would have had several rings in the 80's and 90's! If excellent coaching and front office personnel weren't necessary, ELEMENTAL, to success, does anyone here really think that the 49ers would have been what they were in the 80's? Montana was a GOOD QB, but the system and the rest of the players around him made that team what it was. The same has been true in Pittsburgh.

I just said that I don't think that Romo is a top quality QB, despite the hype. Could he have been? Maybe, if he had the right leadership, but that never happened, and I think now it's probably a bit too late for him.

My opinion is Romo could've been that top quality QB that Payton saw in the draft. That's exactly what Parcells looked to squash when all Dallas' critics were hammering Bledsoe before Romo started. He (Parcells) had to have realized Romo's abilities and attitude. Parcells and Payton were bringing Tony along at the rate where he probably had a chance at being one of the best.

The really pathetic thing is that the guy that would have had an excellent change of being exactly what he needed to develop was right there in 2005, but he got passed over for the job.

Thanks Jerry!!!

You're right there again.

But I've got a question for you, Had Parcells stayed on with Dallas, do you think Payton would've taken the NO job?

God Bless, Ray