Hossa didn't slash DuPuis.
This angle clearly shows it.
How DARE he play the puck!
I was just about to post this.
Pens are complaining about Hossa's hook, but it clearly looks like DuPuis broke his stick by slashing Hossa.
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NHL PLayoffs 2009
- Thread starter warwick.hoy
- Start date
I was just about to post this.
Pens are complaining about Hossa's hook, but it clearly looks like DuPuis broke his stick by slashing Hossa.
Those composite sticks are weaker than a calcium deprived old ladies' bones. Would you consider that a slash...and attempted trip...or incidental contact?
I choose the latter. I still don't know if anyone was called and of course...you can not video review a penalty. Replays are always more enlightening, but the call; or lack there of, on the ice will always stand.
EDIT: Checked the Superstats at the RW's site...no call. I think it is the right one.
I choose the latter. I still don't know if anyone was called and of course...you can not video review a penalty. Replays are always more enlightening, but the call; or lack there of, on the ice will always stand.
EDIT: Checked the Superstats at the RW's site...no call. I think it is the right one.
Well, not enough win for my Pens quite yet. Hopefully that will change tomorrow night.
Other that that, this thread rocks. I feel like I should post here while I am watching the game. I have learned so much from you guys in two years, it is awesome. Thank you one and all...even you Bad Brains.
-Mike
Well, not enough win for my Pens quite yet. Hopefully that will change tomorrow night.
Other that that, this thread rocks. I feel like I should post here while I am watching the game. I have learned so much from you guys in two years, it is awesome. Thank you one and all...even you Bad Brains.
-Mike
Keep on hoping
Well, not enough win for my Pens quite yet. Hopefully that will change tomorrow night.
You hope that tomorrow there be enough wins for pens quit?
Hossa didn't slash DuPuis.
This angle clearly shows it.
How DARE he play the puck!
The call in question was a hook to Dupuis' hands several moments before that gif. That type of hook has been called all playoffs.
Hossa didn't slash DuPuis.
This angle clearly shows it.
How DARE he play the puck!
Wings look bunch of Santas on ice...
And the Sharks look like a bunch of........oh........well, I don't see any on the ice right now.
You mean when he lifted the stick and didn't touch his hands? That's not a hook. There was no stick to body contact.
Well, not enough win for my Pens quite yet. Hopefully that will change tomorrow night.
Other that that, this thread rocks. I feel like I should post here while I am watching the game. I have learned so much from you guys in two years, it is awesome. Thank you one and all...even you Bad Brains.
-Mike
Do the live blog posting. That'd be cool. If I still had the net at home I'd be tempted to do the same, as it stands I've got a couple friends coming over (including a Pens fan who likes hockey first) so it should be a good time. Grill menu is Tenderloin steaks w/bacon for dinner, then ubernachos and wings after the 1st period.
Link Removed
If he was lifting the stick, why is Hossa's stick so high up on Dupuis? And sorry for the captions on the first picture, couldn't find a better picture. That's a very unusual 'stick lift'. No doubt he lifted the stick but there was contact with the hands, which is hooking.
Edit: I don't mean to single out any one team or any one non-call. By just letting the teams play it allows for more illegal hooks, holds and slashes to determine the way the game goes. Those things are penalties in the rule book for a reason, the refs need to call them. It will force the players to play a cleaner game of hockey.
Nice find of the pics. Now I'll respond (unlike you after my Kronwall pic post 
) I appreciate it. I was trying to find some myself.
Caption pic and crowd pic - irrelevant. 2 pics from behind above the caption pic - inconclusive. Yes I was a geek and used a protractor's straight edge on my screen to look at angles. Top right - stick being lifted,more of a gap between hands and Hossa's stick. Middle right - looks like Hossa's stick is just about to make contact from behind on DuPuis' stick - looks very close to the hands, but I'm not convinced. The bottom shot looks close again, but at the angle of Dupuis' right hand on the stick (palm up) it could be just off of it. It looks as if Hossa has started to pull the stick away to make his play at the puck or to react to where the puck goes. It's very close, and I can see where you're making your case, but it's not a call I'd make against either team even in the regular season. I'm trying to look at it in 3 dimensions from a 2 dimensional image, if that makes sense, since Hossa's stick is coming from behind Dupuis' stick, so there's movement on the z axis to be considered, not just the x and y.
If there's contact of stick on glove, and it's still an if, imho, and I'd like to see a higher res pic of the bottom shot, since that's the best case of the shots, imho, but again that same shot shows the ref with a much better view than we have. Shots from the front of them (like the angle where the ref is skating) would be the only angle to really see from the Z axis. The ref had a better view than anything I've seen on TV or online, and the bottom pic does show him at the best possible angle to make the call when you consider the z axis movement of the stick.
I agree the stick lift is a bit higher than usual, but making the stick to stick contact up higher like Hossa did gives him a much longer fulcrum at the point of contact than Dupuis had, so he'd have a significant leverage advantage as well as getting more separation of Dupuis' stick from the puck for his effort. Not much of a swing/follow through needed to get the blade away from the puck, less arc in the incoming stick, less chance of a penalty unless you nail the hands.
If that's a Pen on a Wing I don't make the call based on what I can see, even in the regular season. If the stick was on the wrist side of the gloves it's a no-brainer call. If it's in the middle of the glove, it's a no-brainer call. Those are the kind of hooks I've seen called. If there's contact, and it's a big if, the only contact is a minimal brushing of the heavily padded knuckles of the glove, and I'm not convinced from the angle of the shots. That's a good non call by a ref who had a better view than any we have here. That ref also would have had a very clear view of the stick break.
I've seen far worse let go in these playoffs (or regular season). At best I'd categorize calling the hook, if it was one, as very marginal, and not one to be called in the finals. Personally, I'd rather see the teams not be called with marginal or ticky-tack calls and let them play.
) I appreciate it. I was trying to find some myself.Caption pic and crowd pic - irrelevant. 2 pics from behind above the caption pic - inconclusive. Yes I was a geek and used a protractor's straight edge on my screen to look at angles. Top right - stick being lifted,more of a gap between hands and Hossa's stick. Middle right - looks like Hossa's stick is just about to make contact from behind on DuPuis' stick - looks very close to the hands, but I'm not convinced. The bottom shot looks close again, but at the angle of Dupuis' right hand on the stick (palm up) it could be just off of it. It looks as if Hossa has started to pull the stick away to make his play at the puck or to react to where the puck goes. It's very close, and I can see where you're making your case, but it's not a call I'd make against either team even in the regular season. I'm trying to look at it in 3 dimensions from a 2 dimensional image, if that makes sense, since Hossa's stick is coming from behind Dupuis' stick, so there's movement on the z axis to be considered, not just the x and y.
If there's contact of stick on glove, and it's still an if, imho, and I'd like to see a higher res pic of the bottom shot, since that's the best case of the shots, imho, but again that same shot shows the ref with a much better view than we have. Shots from the front of them (like the angle where the ref is skating) would be the only angle to really see from the Z axis. The ref had a better view than anything I've seen on TV or online, and the bottom pic does show him at the best possible angle to make the call when you consider the z axis movement of the stick.
I agree the stick lift is a bit higher than usual, but making the stick to stick contact up higher like Hossa did gives him a much longer fulcrum at the point of contact than Dupuis had, so he'd have a significant leverage advantage as well as getting more separation of Dupuis' stick from the puck for his effort. Not much of a swing/follow through needed to get the blade away from the puck, less arc in the incoming stick, less chance of a penalty unless you nail the hands.
If that's a Pen on a Wing I don't make the call based on what I can see, even in the regular season. If the stick was on the wrist side of the gloves it's a no-brainer call. If it's in the middle of the glove, it's a no-brainer call. Those are the kind of hooks I've seen called. If there's contact, and it's a big if, the only contact is a minimal brushing of the heavily padded knuckles of the glove, and I'm not convinced from the angle of the shots. That's a good non call by a ref who had a better view than any we have here. That ref also would have had a very clear view of the stick break.
I've seen far worse let go in these playoffs (or regular season). At best I'd categorize calling the hook, if it was one, as very marginal, and not one to be called in the finals. Personally, I'd rather see the teams not be called with marginal or ticky-tack calls and let them play.
I see a hook,,,,, If the order of the photos goes counterclockwise (which I believe they do)Hossa's stick is underneath and trying to lift,it's in the high enough that Hossa's vulnerable to the offensive player pulling the puck across his body trapping his stick between the O players waist and his stick.Drawing the hook.Of course I can't tell for sure it's under the stick.
Oh...and that whole "parallel to the ice thing"
Aj
Oh...and that whole "parallel to the ice thing"
Aj
I agree with the photo order
He definitely was vulnerable to that, but Dupuis didn't do that. The under the stick bit is pretty clear imho - if Hossa was coming from outside the stick, he'd have pushed Dupuis' stick into the puck, not away from it. The only possible body contact on the play was the hands, and I'm honestly not convinced by the photos. The ref had a better view than any of us do.
Nothing in the rules about "parallel to the ice thing". The only reason to call a hook in the situation is if it's body contact from the stick.
NHL Rulebook said:
Nice find of the pics. Now I'll respond (unlike you after my Kronwall pic post
Caption pic and crowd pic - irrelevant. 2 pics from behind above the caption pic - inconclusive. Yes I was a geek and used a protractor's straight edge on my screen to look at angles. Top right - stick being lifted,more of a gap between hands and Hossa's stick. Middle right - looks like Hossa's stick is just about to make contact from behind on DuPuis' stick - looks very close to the hands, but I'm not convinced. The bottom shot looks close again, but at the angle of Dupuis' right hand on the stick (palm up) it could be just off of it. It looks as if Hossa has started to pull the stick away to make his play at the puck or to react to where the puck goes. It's very close, and I can see where you're making your case, but it's not a call I'd make against either team even in the regular season. I'm trying to look at it in 3 dimensions from a 2 dimensional image, if that makes sense, since Hossa's stick is coming from behind Dupuis' stick, so there's movement on the z axis to be considered, not just the x and y.
If there's contact of stick on glove, and it's still an if, imho, and I'd like to see a higher res pic of the bottom shot, since that's the best case of the shots, imho, but again that same shot shows the ref with a much better view than we have. Shots from the front of them (like the angle where the ref is skating) would be the only angle to really see from the Z axis. The ref had a better view than anything I've seen on TV or online, and the bottom pic does show him at the best possible angle to make the call when you consider the z axis movement of the stick.
I agree the stick lift is a bit higher than usual, but making the stick to stick contact up higher like Hossa did gives him a much longer fulcrum at the point of contact than Dupuis had, so he'd have a significant leverage advantage as well as getting more separation of Dupuis' stick from the puck for his effort. Not much of a swing/follow through needed to get the blade away from the puck, less arc in the incoming stick, less chance of a penalty unless you nail the hands.
If that's a Pen on a Wing I don't make the call based on what I can see, even in the regular season. If the stick was on the wrist side of the gloves it's a no-brainer call. If it's in the middle of the glove, it's a no-brainer call. Those are the kind of hooks I've seen called. If there's contact, and it's a big if, the only contact is a minimal brushing of the heavily padded knuckles of the glove, and I'm not convinced from the angle of the shots. That's a good non call by a ref who had a better view than any we have here. That ref also would have had a very clear view of the stick break.
I've seen far worse let go in these playoffs (or regular season). At best I'd categorize calling the hook, if it was one, as very marginal, and not one to be called in the finals. Personally, I'd rather see the teams not be called with marginal or ticky-tack calls and let them play.
It was tough to find a higher res photo, as the play happened so fast. Even on replays the whole thing lasts less than a second. I agree that it would have been a marginal call, but most of the hooking calls I've seen these playoffs have been marginal. I dunno, I would've called it a hook (and I'm cheering on the Red Wings to win the Cup, just like last year).
And I'll respond to the Kronwall pic now
Didn't see it posted earlier in the thread as I sometimes don't read through new posts. It was a clean hit...BUT! still interference as Havlat had not touched the puck. The follow through with his forearm didn't help matters either (that and Havlat being unconscious is likely the deciding factor in why it was 5 minutes). Yea it probably shouldn't have been a 5 minute penalty, but I do think that it should have been a 2 minute interference call because Havlat never had possession of the puck.Understandable, it's a beast to try to analyze it all, but I gave it a go (good thing our seniors are on their senior trip, I had more open time in my schedule today). I'm just not a big fan of making marginal calls, never have been. I've seen too many games where they let something blatant go then make a ticky-tack call later. When it's two skilled teams on the ice, I'm a firm believer in not making the ticky-tack calls, or even the marginal ones in any situation.
And I'll respond to the Kronwall pic now
I'm not on over weekends or on evenings so sometimes I'm a bit late to the fray, but it's definitely worth reading the whole thread here, most of the people talking are pretty knowledgeable, and I actually enjoy the banter more here than on certain other hockey boards. Thanks for responding now
Yes it was a clean hit, and I firmly agree it shouldn't have been a major. Interference was marginal, since Havlat chose to let the puck go thru his legs and take it off the boards instead of receiving with his stick. He had looked back and definitely saw it, so imho I can't complain about a 2 minute minor since by the rulebook he hadn't touched it (even though he imho chose to not take it before it went through his legs) - possession in a case like that imho needs to be clarifed. I spoke about it in my earlier post and I don't want to rehash.
We're still down 2-0, and if not getting calls like this one means we lose, then we really don't deserve to win anyway.
-Mike
-Mike
