• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Double Bass NS Design NXT Megathread

My problem comes when I cross the strings with bow. Most of the time I make contact with the adjoining strings :(.

In different times, I would probably try to find a teacher but that isn’t on my agenda right now.

I am also a little worried that a teacher might have a lot of bias towards these instruments.
My advice is to try out teachers, with a focus on those who'll work remotely. Zoom, pre-recorded video, whatever you're both willing and able to work with. Live is better, because the feedback loop is tighter, but pre-recorded is still more effective than trying to figure it out for yourself.

Some people absolutely do have bias against these instruments, including a few on this forum. However, not all do; my teacher is one of those that don't.
What timezone are you in? If you have good enough overlap with Amsterdam's evening, I can check whether he has space in his roster.


General advice, from my own experience with the same issue:

Make sure the bow is actually perpendicular to the strings; it's easy to let it droop when you're focused on other things, and that really doesn't help with this. PORA can be helpful here, where you focus on different things in turn instead of trying to fix everything at once.

Try bowing further down towards the bridge, where the strings are further apart. This also helpfully reduces the difference between bowing open strings and bowing fingered/fretted notes. The latter used to give me trouble, by reducing the height between the string of interest and its neighbours.

Lastly, I can recommend a boringly simple exercise that's worked pretty well: leave the left hand out of it, and just bow open notes, moving from one string to the next. Work down from G/C to E/B, then back up again. Once you have that nailed, move on to fretted notes in the lowest register you can sustain, where the height-difference between open and fretted strings is least.
 
Lastly, I can recommend a boringly simple exercise that's worked pretty well: leave the left hand out of it, and just bow open notes, moving from one string to the next. Work down from G/C to E/B, then back up again. Once you have that nailed, move on to fretted notes in the lowest register you can sustain, where the height-difference between open and fretted strings is least.

+1

Bowing takes lot of time to learn, IME. A LOT. One needs to advance slowly making sure that simple exrcercise is well mastered before moving on the more advanced excercise...
 
Last edited:
+1 for both @equill and @Zbysek 's advice.

Bowing is difficult, it's even more difficult on a 5 string. And I believe it's even more difficult to get the strings started on a solid body NS than on a normal double bass.

That said. The introductory bowing courses on discoverdoublebass.com really helped me. The courses seem a bit pricey, but they're definitely worth it!
 
+1 for both @equill and @Zbysek 's advice.

Bowing is difficult, it's even more difficult on a 5 string. And I believe it's even more difficult to get the strings started on a solid body NS than on a normal double bass.

That said. The introductory bowing courses on discoverdoublebass.com really helped me. The courses seem a bit pricey, but they're definitely worth it!

Thank you

I will definitely check out this website.

Fortunately I am very patient and will be happy to learn on a really basic level.:)
 
Here's a quick direct audio comparison of the 3Sigma upright IRs, if anyone's interested. I don't have the Berliner IR, but I did finally pick up the Mod Bass response not too long ago.

Recording setup: NXTa > Stomp (compression, IR with high cut set at 3kHz) > Cubase LE

These are all the #3 variants of their IRs, recorded with the Audio Technica ATM 250DE microphone (one of 5 mic choices for each IR).

5sg.

Sample 1: Dry NXTa
Sample 2: NXTa with Prescott IR
Sample 3: NXTa with The Hawk IR
Sample 4: NXTa with German IR
Sample 5: NXTa with Mod Bass IR

 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: J R Knots
Here's a quick direct audio comparison of the 3Sigma upright IRs, if anyone's interested. I don't have the Berliner IR, but I did finally pick up the Mod Bass response not too long ago.

Recording setup: NXTa > Stomp (compression, IR with high cut set at 3kHz) > Cubase LE

These are all the #3 variants of their IRs, recorded with the Audio Technica ATM 250DE microphone (one of 5 mic choices for each IR).

5sg.

Sample 1: Dry NXTa
Sample 2: NXTa with Prescott IR
Sample 3: NXTa with The Hawk IR
Sample 4: NXTa with German IR
Sample 5: NXTa with Mod Bass IR



Thanks for posting-5Stringgecko.

Nice comparison
 
  • Like
Reactions: fivestringgecko
Not sure whether it's useful to cross-link over here, but I've been wondering about the design of the NXT (passive) piezos, and created a post to discuss this topic over in the Electronics section.

In case anyone with more electronics and NXT experience would like to help me out (or just have a look), it's over here:

Piezos, Passive volume & the NS-Design NXT

TL-DR version: how come the NXT passvie vol/tone adjustments work fine, despite the wide-spread view that piezo signals should NOT be passively adjusted prior to buffering. (answers also welcome in this thread :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: equill
What sounds fine to you might sound ugly or barely acceptable to others. The only way to find out is disconnecting the pickup from the internal electronics and connecting it (only one pickup!) to a (separate or disconnected) output jack.

Connecting multiple unbuffered piezos in parallel sounds less good, connecting them in series enlarges the output impedance.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kumimajava
What sounds fine to you might sound ugly or barely acceptable to others. The only way to find out is disconnecting the pickup from the internal electronics and connecting it (only one pickup!) to a (separate or disconnected) output jack.

Connecting multiple unbuffered piezos in parallel sounds less good, connecting them in series enlarges the output impedance.

Thanks for the comment - may I ask, have you actually tried the first-gen NXT yourself?

The NXT, wired as above, using the "jackpot wiring" also has a "full bypass" at one end of the volume pot. It does exactly as you say - bypass both the volume & tone pots & go straight out. Having had the NXT plugged into a piezo buffer, the difference between "bypass" and "passive volume slightly adjusted" was ratether minor, and definitely not terrible.

Also - if this passive vol/tone adjustmen were truly "ugly and unacceptable," I'd be suprised that Steinberger would have left it in - given how careful they are with their circuit design.

Their current WAV range has also retained the passvie tone controls/volume, which I doubt they'd have left in if it were genuinely terrible.
 
No, no NXT and I forgot about the bypass. But I have a lot of experience with piezo sensors and electronics for piezos. So I know by experience what I‘m talking about.
But it might depend on the kind of piezo sensor how good it works.
Maybe they used a 5 MOhms pot and not a 100 KOhms one as used for magnetic pickups and which degraded the sound substantially on my Clevinger EUB, so that I built a double buffer for the two piezo elements to avoid that problem.
Anyway, that Bass volume pot and the amp gain pot are connected in parallel and that reduces the effective input impedance if there is no active buffer in front.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kumimajava
No, no NXT and I forgot about the bypass. But I have a lot of experience with piezo sensors and electronics for piezos. So I know by experience what I‘m talking about.
But it might depend on the kind of piezo sensor how good it works.
Maybe they used a 5 MOhms pot and not a 100 KOhms one as used for magnetic pickups and which degraded the sound substantially on my Clevinger EUB, so that I built a double buffer for the two piezo elements to avoid that problem.
Anyway, that Bass volume pot and the amp gain pot are connected in parallel and that reduces the effective input impedance if there is no active buffer in front.

Thanks for writing back - here's the diagram: 1meg pots, in parallel, i think?

nsdesign_nxt_jackpot_circuit-jpg.jpg
 
Um... I have one of the original NXT5s... It sounds surprisingly good for a passive Piezo pickup. Yes, there are many piezo pickups that will truly sound awful when not properly buffered. I have a Fishman Full Circle that sounds downright ganky if you don't buffer it. The NXT sounds much more natural - still electronic sounding, for sure, but much better than any of the traditional piezo pickups out there that practically demand buffering (at least impedance-wise).
 
I just wanted to stop by in the mega thread and mention that I’m planning to sell my passive NXT with all of the upgrades (us bag, hipshots, stand, etc). Also, I use a fdeck hpf as a preamp, it is attached to the back plate with dual lock. That has worked out very well for me with this bass!