OD that doesn't rob bottom end

[Deleted member 271037]

To be honest I think you won't get much closer to SVT-style grind than the VT Deluxe and some of the suggestions in this thread aren't even remotely close (but cool pedals on their own terms of course).

I think you need to look into your gain staging. I'm guessing you probably need to lower the output level from the VT or disengange the 1/4" boost if it's activated. You should have no problems getting grind from the VT without overloading your amp.

I don't think spending money on more equipment is the answer here (but you might find a DIFFERENT tone that you like of course so it might be fun anyway).

 

[Kipp Harrington]

If all of that is true, you should be concerned that your amp or preamp might be defective, or that you don't know how to use your equipment. You shouldn't be shopping for an overdrive in this situation. (If all you want is to buy a new overdrive you don't need to make up an excuse.)

If your limiter light doesn't come on when you eliminate your preamp from your signal chain, then there is something wrong with your preamp, or your output level is too high (user error). Someone else already asked what happens when you turn down the output level of your preamp? You know there's no reason to have it higher than unity gain with the dry signal out of your bass? Have you tried setting the input level on your amp head with only the bass plugged in and then setting the output level on your preamp to match?

I never understood what "unity gain" is. I've read about it but I do not understand it. Sorry about my ignorance here.

If I run my signal straight to my amp, I am not getting any limit light indicator flashes. This is with passive basses, my input/gain at about 11 o'clock, bass at noon, low mids at noon, high mids around 1, treble around 1 also. And this is with the "deep switch" on my amp (Subway D-800) engaged!

I am thinking that the Tech 21 preamp I am using is simply too powerful of a preamp for my amp to handle. The level output on this pedal is very difficult to dial in and it can get ridiculouly powerful... To the point that I am worried about damaging my drivers while I'm making volume adjustments. I have grown to really dislike this pedal.

P.S. I have engaged my active/passive toggle on my amp to "active" when using my Tech 21 but still get the limit light flashing too often for my liking. More than 25% of the time, for sure. I'm curious about whether or not some other preamp/overdrive pedals wouldn't slam my front end as drastically as my Tech 21 VT Bass Deluxe.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

I never understood what "unity gain" is. I've read about it but I do not understand it. Sorry about my ignorance here.

If I run my signal straight to my amp, I am not getting any limit light indicator flashes. This is with a passive basses, my input/gain at about 11 o'clock, bass at noon, low mids at noon, high mids around 1, treble around 1 also. And this is with the "deep switch" on my amp (Subway D-800) engaged!

I am thinking that the Tech 21 preamp I am using is simply too powerful of a preamp for my amp to handle. The level output on this pedal is very difficult to dial in and it can get ridiculouly powerful... To the point that I am worried about damaging my drivers while I'm making volume adjustments. I have grown to really dislike this pedal.

P.S. I have engaged my active/passive toggle on my amp to "active" when using my Tech 21 but still get the limit light flashing too often for my liking. More than 25% of the time, for sure. I'm curious about whether or not some other preamp/overdrive pedals wouldn't slam my front end as drastically as my Tech 21 VT Bass Deluxe.

For the purpose of this particular case: Unity gain = set the output level of the VT so it's the same as with your bass going straight to the amp. The pedal should not give a volume boost (unless you want it to).

Like I said in my previous post: You may want to try lowering the output level on the VT and also disengange the 1/4" boost if it's activated. In my experience you should have no problems with overloading your amp if the VT is set correctly and you should still be able to get grind from the VT. But I don't know the details of your signal chain and I'm not familiar with that amp. Any other pedals that may boost the signal too much?

I honestly don't understand why this won't work unless you're either using your equipment incorrectly or something is defective.

 

[mambo4]

My solution with ANY effect is to run a clean sound in parallel. All effects will rob bottom end from your signal chain. So I bi-amp, and keep the lows solidly underneath whatever effect I'm using.

so true. Most effects operate on the higher frequencies. I used to run a low wattage guitar amp on top of my clean bass amp. All fx went into that. Sounded great, even with mediocre gear. You don't need much wattage if you don't need the the bass.

 

[Feral Feline]

To be honest I think you won't get much closer to SVT-style grind than the VT Deluxe and some of the suggestions in this thread aren't even remotely close (but cool pedals on their own terms of course).

I think you need to look into your gain staging. I'm guessing you probably need to lower the output level from the VT or disengange the 1/4" boost if it's activated. You should have no problems getting grind from the VT without overloading your amp.

I don't think spending money on more equipment is the answer here.

Reading the OP again...

"In closing... are there OD pedals available that wouldn't slam the front end of my amp as hard as the VT Bass Deluxe?"

That to me opened the discussion up to ODs beyond the scope of "SVT-only", so of course there are suggestions that aren't remotely close. Not only that, it's TB, so even if the OP said "In closing... are there SVT-based OD pedals available that wouldn't slam the front end of my amp as hard as the VT Bass Deluxe?" — TBers would still respond with suggestions that aren't remotely close.


I'll make one more suggestion to the OP...


Asparagus.

​

 

[Deleted member 271037]

Reading the OP again...

"In closing... are there OD pedals available that wouldn't slam the front end of my amp as hard as the VT Bass Deluxe?"

That to me opened the discussion up to ODs beyond the scope of "SVT-only", so of course there are suggestions that aren't remotely close. Not only that, it's TB, so even if the OP said "In closing... are there SVT-based OD pedals available that wouldn't slam the front end of my amp as hard as the VT Bass Deluxe?" — TBers would still respond with suggestions that aren't remotely close.


I'll make one more suggestion to the OP...


Asparagus.

​

But he did say "So, I was wondering if anyone could suggest an OD pedal that adds some SVT-like grind."

And when this particular situation also suggests either user error or something defective I don't think it's very helpful to suggest every OD pedal out there.

But you're right of course, this is talkbass.

 

[Kipp Harrington]

For the purpose of this particular case: Unity gain = set the output level of the VT so it's the same as with your bass going straight to the amp. The pedal should not give a volume boost (unless you want it to).

Like I said in my previous post: You may want to try lowering the output level on the VT and also disengange the 1/4" boost if it's activated. In my experience you should have no problems with overloading your amp if the VT is set correctly and you should still be able to get grind from the VT. But I don't know the details of your signal chain and I'm not familiar with that amp. Any other pedals that may boost the signal too much?

I honestly don't understand why this won't work unless you're either using your equipment incorrectly or something is defective.

Thanks. Yeah, I set the Tech 21output level to where there is hardly a noticeable volume boost when engaged. Perhaps after I set my amps volume and EQ levels, I should set the Tech 21's output level a bit lower than unity gain. Maybe that will work. Back to more experimenting...

 

[Deleted member 271037]

Thanks. Yeah, I set the Tech 21output level to where there is hardly a noticeable volume boost when engaged. Perhaps after I set my amps volume and EQ levels, I should set the Tech 21's output level a bit lower than unity gain. Maybe that will work. Back to more experimenting...

Be aware the low frequencies EAT headroom. If you're boosting the lows with the VT but not the overall output volume you might still overload the input of your amp. If you're boosting the lows a lot with the VT then yeah, maybe aim for a slightly lower overall output volume.

I still think it's weird that your amp overloads with "hardly a noticeable volume boost" though. It sounds to me like there MIGHT be a problem your amp. It should be able to handle this. Do you have any other boost/OD pedals? Do you get the same problem with those pedals if you boost the signal slightly?

 

[Deleted member 271037]

...and of course if the indicator light on your amp is for the OUTPUT section of the amp any eq-settings on the amp will affect it too. If you boost lows on both the VT and the amp I suspect you might easily overload it.

 

[Rabidhamster]

What happens when you turn down the level knob on the Tech 21?

Thanks. Yeah, I set the Tech 21output level to where there is hardly a noticeable volume boost when engaged. Perhaps after I set my amps volume and EQ levels, I should set the Tech 21's output level a bit lower than unity gain. Maybe that will work. Back to more experimenting...

Right just keep turning it down until it's the level you want...turn it all the way off and back up if you need to! .not that your limiter light coming on really matters if everythbg sounds good .

 

[IvanBassist]

Hey guys/gals... here's my situation:

I have been running my Tech 21 VT Deluxe preamp in front of my Mesa Subway D-800. I regularly run that amp through a Subway 112 and 115, combined. I have tried many different settings and applications to avoid my limit light illuminating and nothing seems to work. The indicator light is flashing more often than I would like and I don't want to risk damaging the amp and/or drivers.

So, I was wondering if anyone could suggest an OD pedal that adds some SVT-like grind. I understand that nobody will achieve a true SVT tone unless they'reusing an SVT. Just something that respectfully represents that type of tone.

I am sure there will be innumerable responses/suggestions and that's ok.

In closing... are there OD pedals available that wouldn't slam the front end of my amp as hard as the VT Bass Deluxe?

Thanks for any and all of direction

Have you tried the Tech 21 YYZ? It works great with the WD-800 and you can get a lot more sounds out of it other than the "geddy lee tone"

 

[GMC]

The Klon model (the one I liked the overload characteristics of) definitely has low end loss - and lots of it. No, I don't have any low end loss on my board - the difference is between on and off.

If a rig doesn't have much real low end (like most bass amp cabinets), that's a situation where you wouldn't notice the difference.

You make a lot of assumptions, actually I would notice. My rig by the way is an Ashdown 400w head and a pair of custom 2 ways cabs fitted with Eminence 400w 15" drivers, tuned to an f3 of 42Hz and a high x-max figure. A flat response that tops out just over 12Khz, perfect for bass. It can shove the low B all day until my ears bleed. It does the low stuff. I know because I designed and specced the cab myself.
I'm also a hifi buff...I know what sound colouration sounds like and what flat response sounds like. Plug in a pair of ATC speakers through a linn and Naim set up and you will see what I mean...

I've also been building basses and modding dirt pedals for a long time. In fact my web site is the original Bass building diary and has inspired many Luthiers over the years. My inbox is literally littered with emails from all over the world.

I'm really not sure you've actually tried this pedal because your comment just don't stack up to any real world example of using this pedal. Certainly you haven't opened up the Neuro desktop editor or phone editor. I've owned a copy of this pedal for over three years and since getting the new SA Ultrawave...there is no need for any other type of dirt on my board. These two pedals has kicked them all off and I have a drawer full of reference pedals that I no longer need. Wamplers, zfex, Dam, Catalinbread, Fairfield to name a few marques in my box of dirt. I can model them all, get close to or improve on them all using these two pedals from Source Audio...and it's not even hard to do. All of my patches are available for free on the SA Cloud for everyone / anyone to use.
If you don't like the Source Audio Aftershock, that's your prerogative and choice. I don't happen to like many of the Darkglass pedals, B3K...the most un-amp sounding "overdrive" around...however many metallers swear by them and hugely rate them. I don;t like them, but other's do. So I respect that. However, don't dare to say there is any low end loss (or latency) with the Aftershock when there is none, unless the dirt model is supposed to.
A true Klon circuit design has low end loss by the nature of the circuit design. I know because I've made a clone of one myself and studied the circuit board to get the low bass though. There's a few schematics out there that remove the output filter network, that helps dial back in some of the low end. This alteration, however also changes the nature of the grit and how the op amp distorts and doesn't sound like a Klon anymore. This is because a Klon is trying to emulate a Dumble guitar amp, which has a very specific baked in EQ curve that has a lot of low end loss. So saying that the Aftershock has low end loss because it's modelling a pedal that is well known to have an intentional low end loss is a misleading argument. Actually it's doing exactly what it says on the tin.
The Bass Tube overdrive model is the most transparent overdrive that I've ever used. But it's more of a soloing noodling sound. If I want a more old school Ampeg much tone, I just crank up the grit and level, dial down the tone and dial in some 120hz boom. Easy and I have a patch set up just for that sound. Lots of compression in that model at the high end of the grit, put a pair of them in parallel and it's...lets say...excessive....with no bass loss at all.
There's a fully featured 4 band EQ on either channel AND a fully adjustable HPF and LPF. You can choose the type of treble and bass filters, from shelving to Low / high pass filters. You can then even choose the type of slope...For most of my patches, I have the mix knob mapped to the bass level (optional between +/- 3 to 20db).
So you either have the wrong pedal in mind, or you didn't try this pedal out beyond a cursory plug in.
As I said before...if you don't like it, that's fine...but make sure your facts ring true.

 

[AMJBASS]

Southampton Fifth Gear and Solidgoldfx Beta are both good.

This. Southampton Fifth Gear is fantastic. Doesn't lose any low end and gets that pushed tube amp vibe.

 

[RJ]

Insert Michael Jackson popcorn gif.

 

[chiphaleonbass]

Insert Michael Jackson popcorn gif.

Just reading the thread title I knew it was going to get lit in here. Especially if you're looking for a pedal that gives you that "SVT Tube-like grind."

 

[two fingers]

If you can find a JHS mod Bass Soul Food you'll be all set. Not only does it have a blend, but it comes with two switches added by JHS. One is for switching between the factory and "more vintage" sounding diodes. The other is a "bass boost", which (if I understand correctly) is more like less bass taken out of your signal rather than more bass in.

I really like mine.

 

[Peaveylover]

To be honest I think you won't get much closer to SVT-style grind than the VT Deluxe and some of the suggestions in this thread aren't even remotely close (but cool pedals on their own terms of course).

I think you need to look into your gain staging. I'm guessing you probably need to lower the output level from the VT or disengange the 1/4" boost if it's activated. You should have no problems getting grind from the VT without overloading your amp.

I don't think spending money on more equipment is the answer here (but you might find a DIFFERENT tone that you like of course so it might be fun anyway).

What about the super 300? For the OP, the Super 300 is THE svt pedal nowadays and has so much bass I am running my bass knob below noon.

 

[Freekmagnet]

Anything with a blend.

^^^^^ This ^^^^^
Problem solved.

 

[micguy]

I'm really not sure you've actually tried this pedal because your comment just don't stack up to any real world example of using this pedal. Certainly you haven't opened up the Neuro desktop editor or phone editor.

I have owned 2 of them, and I spent many hours with the desktop editor, trying to make it do what I wanted it to. I'm glad you like your Aftershock. It just wasn't quite the pedal for me.

I didn't say the pedal had low end loss, I said the Klon model (which is the one with the overdrive that was closest to what I wanted to hear) had low end loss.

 

[Cazman]

This... if you can get your hands on one.