Official Barefaced Bass Cab Club

[Downunderwonder]

Thanks for your help. English is not my native language, plus you're going waaaay too much in deep with technical stuff I don't understand very well. This is what I know:
My amp gets 800W at 4 ohm, 400W at 8 ohm. My only cab is a SM (8 ohm), so I have 400W basically. I just want to know if an Elf+single SM can deliver enough volume to play at rehearsals and maybe small gigs.

The BB power figures are maximum clean, or else fudged which I wouldn't expect from Mr Quilter. Reports are Elf is an honest rating so the two should be equal at the 200w setting on the BB.

If you can't get loud enough before distortion with the BB on 200 then Elf is not going to cut it in a 1:1 backup role.

With PA support it should probably get by fine and in lower volume situations also handle the jandal.

 

[Hypercaffium]

I also use BB800 and Super Midget but I'd rather set the output lower than change the gain. Gain is always between 6 and 7 marks on my Quilter. I am not sure about the Elf but I also use my SM with GK MB200 for lower volume staff, which is I believe a comparable volume to Elf. But I'd rather use it at home practice cause it won't keep up with a drummer in a live setting. I think Elf is about the same as MB200 in terms of power and sensitivity, and remember also that SM loves LOTs of power which your Quilter is very good at but Elf...not really

6/7 on the gain is where the magic happens with my Fender P. When using my Fender J I usually keep the gain on 3/4 and crank the master volume for a less compressed and cleaner sound.
Despite the fact that the Elf is considered "very loud for its size" I have doubts that it can keep up with my drummer, that's why I'm asking. Like I said, the BB800 is a peculiar amp and I can't think of a way of measuring how much watts I'm using. Between low gain/high master and high gain/low master things become difficoult to measure for me.

 

[Hypercaffium]

The BB power figures are maximum clean, or else fudged which I wouldn't expect from Mr Quilter. Reports are Elf is an honest rating so the two should be equal at the 200w setting on the BB.

If you can't get loud enough before distortion with the BB on 200 then Elf is not going to cut it in a 1:1 backup role.

With PA support it should probably get by fine and in lower volume situations also handle the jandal.

Sorry, I forgot to mention that we have PA support on our rehearsals place, not always when gigging (I'd bring the BB800 in those scenarios).
Let's say I'll set the master at 200W on my BB800. Where should I set its gain knob? It gives A LOT of volume when cranked. Plus, I guess the master should be around 130W, not 200?

 

[Downunderwonder]

Sorry, I forgot to mention that we have PA support on our rehearsals place, not always when gigging (I'd bring the BB800 in those scenarios).
Let's say I'll set the master at 200W on my BB800. Where should I set its gain knob? It gives A LOT of volume when cranked. Plus, I guess the master should be around 130W, not 200?

You said you wanted a comparison between Elf and your amp. Elf is 200 so that is where you should set BB and whatever you can get from it should be more or less the same as Elf. You didn't say if you are using an overdriven tone so I guess only mildly if at all.

The overdrives won't be the same but a backup is only there to get you through the gig with enough volume. Tonefulness is secondary.

 

[Hypercaffium]

I never said I use an overdriven tone, I'm sorry. The gain knob on the BB800 doesn't add distortion, but some sort of "tubey" compression. Depending on where you set the gain knob, the overall output volume is VERY different. That's why I don't think we can make a true comparison, but I'm all ears if you have suggestions.

 

[mmbass21]

Hi guys,
I currently use a Quilter BB800+Super Midget combo as my main rig. I'm thinking about getting a Trace Elliot Elf as a backup amp, rehearsal amp, possibly small gigs amp?
I'm curious to hear from you guys how loud the Elf can be with a single Super Midget.
Thanks.

The elf is my backup and I used to have a BB800 but have since switched to the WD800. When my BB800 didn't turn on for a gig and was left without a backup at the time and I immediately bought it. I had to use it for 2 gigs while the BB800 was getting fixed and it absolutely out performs its rating imo. I found myself having to turn it down at the beginning of the first gig.

It had no problem pushing the BB2 when I had it and it pushes my Two10s quite nicely too. DI is solid in it too and any gig where it wouldn't be loud enough I'd have PA support with more than enough stage volume from the elf. The only knock on it for me is I have to almost dime the midrange to get close to the tone I want.

 

[triode6L6a]

I never said I use an overdriven tone, I'm sorry. The gain knob on the BB800 doesn't add distortion, but some sort of "tubey" compression. Depending on where you set the gain knob, the overall output volume is VERY different. That's why I don't think we can make a true comparison, but I'm all ears if you have suggestions.

I just want to point out that Pat Quilter has said the master control on the BB800 is very accurate for what the amp is putting out, in fact accurate enough to help match it to cabs that require less power. Of course you're going to get a LOT of change in volume when you adjust the gain, it's the same with most amps, but I think you can count on the BB800 to only put out 200 watts into 4 ohms when the master is set to 200. Still, I'm not sure this will help with a comparison with the ELF, because the Quilter seems to have some "magic" inside.

 

[Downunderwonder]

some sort of "tubey" compression

is what is also known as mild overdrive.

the BB800 is very accurate for what the amp is putting out

taking that for what it's worth is how I come up with setting it at 200w to get as good an idea as you will ever get how the Elf might perform for you through your cabinet.

 

[Hypercaffium]

Of course you're going to get a LOT of change in volume when you adjust the gain, it's the same with most amps, but I think you can count on the BB800 to only put out 200 watts into 4 ohms when the master is set to 200.

My SM is 8 ohms, so I should probably set the master volume on 400 watts to do a comparison.
That said, without a precise reference for the gain knob, the comparison can't be made imho. I understand that the master limits the wattage correctly, but the gain knob does a HUGE difference in terms of output volume. Like I said, it's a peculiar amp that isn't so easy to understand (but easy to use), especially if you don't have one.

is what is also known as mild overdrive.

No, it's not. There is no distortion circuit in the head, it's a limiter. Pushing the limiter results in a "clicky" compressed tone, which is clean and not distorted.
Anyway, thanks for the help. I'll see if I can borrow an Elf or order one from a shop that accept returns, it seems the only way to see if it works for me.

 

[Downunderwonder]

My SM is 8 ohms, so I should probably set the master volume on 400 watts to do a comparison.
That said, without a precise reference for the gain knob, the comparison can't be made imho. I understand that the master limits the wattage correctly, but the gain knob does a HUGE difference in terms of output volume. Like I said, it's a peculiar amp that isn't so easy to understand (but easy to use), especially if you don't have one.


No, it's not. There is no distortion circuit in the head, it's a limiter. Pushing the limiter results in a "clicky" compressed tone, which is clean and not distorted.
Anyway, thanks for the help. I'll see if I can borrow an Elf or order one from a shop that accept returns, it seems the only way to see if it works for me.

No. The Elf is also 200w at 4 ohm. The BB numbers on the front apply to 4ohm loading. So you set the BB on 200w. Apples to apples.

Both amps mimic tubes progressively overdriving as far as I know. A limiter is a completely different thing and extremely clumsy. I don't think the BB would be selling at all well if that was all that happened with the Master being turned down.

How did you get on at 200w anyway?

 

[Hypercaffium]

Sorry for not making myself clear enough.
Both the amps can offer 200w at 4 ohm (the BB800 goes up to 800), but I use a single Super Midget which is 8 ohm.
So... at 8 ohm the ELF is 130 watts max and the BB800 is 450 watts max. I should set the master on the BB800 a couple of detents before 400 watts (which is a little bit less than 200 watts at 8 ohm).
Believe it or not, this is NOT as simple as you think. It's easier just to grab an ELF and bring it to rehearsals. If I can find a shop with a return policy I'll try that, otherwise I will not.

In the tube amp world, distortion and compression both happen for the same reason, and always happen somehow together. The BB800 has a built-in limiter that can be pushed up to the point it starts to clip a little bit but it's not an usable "overdriven tone" imho and I don't find it very pleasing. It simulates the kind of "click" you hear from tubes when you push them hard, but without the distortion.

 

[Downunderwonder]

Sorry for not making myself clear enough.
Both the amps can offer 200w at 4 ohm (the BB800 goes up to 800), but I use a single Super Midget which is 8 ohm.
So... at 8 ohm the ELF is 130 watts max and the BB800 is 450 watts max. I should set the master on the BB800 a couple of detents before 400 watts (which is a little bit less than 200 watts at 8 ohm).
Believe it or not, this is NOT as simple as you think.

The midget cab impedance isn't here or there. Very simple.

I don't know the numbers on your detents but you should be aiming to hit 200w @ 4 ohms for the best guess. That turns it into a 200w amp. Also very simple.

Now there could be a small difference in the numbers each hits at 8 ohm from what you're saying. 450 is 12.5% more than half the 800 where the Elf is a full 30%. Still that is relatively little difference and way different to your maths.

To pro rata BB to a 130w @ 8ohm level you would have to set it 130 x16/9 = 231 @4 ohm, good luck!

 

[mmbass21]

Sorry for not making myself clear enough.
Both the amps can offer 200w at 4 ohm (the BB800 goes up to 800), but I use a single Super Midget which is 8 ohm.
So... at 8 ohm the ELF is 130 watts max and the BB800 is 450 watts max. I should set the master on the BB800 a couple of detents before 400 watts (which is a little bit less than 200 watts at 8 ohm).
Believe it or not, this is NOT as simple as you think. It's easier just to grab an ELF and bring it to rehearsals. If I can find a shop with a return policy I'll try that, otherwise I will not.

In the tube amp world, distortion and compression both happen for the same reason, and always happen somehow together. The BB800 has a built-in limiter that can be pushed up to the point it starts to clip a little bit but it's not an usable "overdriven tone" imho and I don't find it very pleasing. It simulates the kind of "click" you hear from tubes when you push them hard, but without the distortion.

I never had the BB800 clip on me. I moved on from it because it always felt it was lacking overall volume and when I would have the gain around 60-70% it would go into distortion and I didn't like its tone. I always had it between 400-800 watts. It also didn't have enough EQ control for my needs as well. The BB802 they're coming out with looks interesting with more eq and other added features.

The higher you put the gain on the elf you get the distortion circuit and if you dime it you get full on fuzz. I've never heard it do the class D clicking. Now the fuzz sounds pretty good through my Two10s, any cab I used with a tweeter on it doesn't sound good to me.

 

[Hypercaffium]

I never had the BB800 clip on me. I moved on from it because it always felt it was lacking overall volume and when I would have the gain around 60-70% it would go into distortion and I didn't like its tone. I always had it between 400-800 watts. It also didn't have enough EQ control or my needs as well. The BB802 they're coming out with looks interesting with more eq and other added features.
The higher you put the gain on the elf you get the distortion circuit and if you dime it you get full on fuzz. I've never heard it do the class D clicking. Now the fuzz sounds pretty good through my Two10s, any cab I used with a tweeter on it doesn't sound good to me.

I'm sorry you didn't like it. Mine is my only amp since a couple of years and I use with/for everything.
/OT
About the tweeter: I keep mine low or disabled when using distortion pedals with a lot of gain.

 

[BigEarl]

I have an SC and love it, but I am wanting a modular two cab solution. My question is: does anyone here use an SC/SC or SC/BBII stacked configuration. Any insight into you experiences would be most helpful. Thanks folks!

 

[G Aichele]

I have an SC and love it, but I am wanting a modular two cab solution. My question is: does anyone here use an SC/SC or SC/BBII stacked configuration. Any insight into you experiences would be most helpful. Thanks folks!

I have 2 SCs that I use stacked at larger venues. One is enough at smaller venues. The 2 cabs stacked sound beautiful together, deep and rich. Is that all that you wanted to know?

 

[PaperbackRyder]

I have an SC and love it, but I am wanting a modular two cab solution. My question is: does anyone here use an SC/SC or SC/BBII stacked configuration. Any insight into you experiences would be most helpful. Thanks folks!

I also have 2x SC's. One is enough for most situations. I bring two for outdoor or larger indoor venues, though realistically probably never need to. Either or both, always magnificent tone.
FYI; To my ears, they sound best either side by side or stacked vertically. Stacked horizontally they seem to lose a bit of that delicious midrange. I can't explain why that is.

 

[mrwood4]

I have an SC and love it, but I am wanting a modular two cab solution. My question is: does anyone here use an SC/SC or SC/BBII stacked configuration. Any insight into you experiences would be most helpful. Thanks folks!

I also use an SC/SC set up with a mesa WD800. Love it. I do use one cab almost exclusively indoors with no volume issues.
Both cabs outdoors is plenty of volume.

 

[ThisYouCanTrust]

Hi guys,
I currently use a Quilter BB800+Super Midget combo as my main rig. I'm thinking about getting a Trace Elliot Elf as a backup amp, rehearsal amp, possibly small gigs amp?
I'm curious to hear from you guys how loud the Elf can be with a single Super Midget.
Thanks.

I could not test the ELF but I have tested several other small class D amps.
Most could get plenty loud enough, however when pushed to those levels the sound suffered, it felt compressed as if the amps lacked air.

Since the ELF cost almost the same as a Baby Sumo why not get that instead as a backup amp and never worry anymore whether you have enough power ?
Sure it's twice the weight but we are talking grams now ..

 

[boristhespider7]

Hi guys,
I currently use a Quilter BB800+Super Midget combo as my main rig. I'm thinking about getting a Trace Elliot Elf as a backup amp, rehearsal amp, possibly small gigs amp?
I'm curious to hear from you guys how loud the Elf can be with a single Super Midget.
Thanks.

Your in Italy right?
I ordered a TC Electric BQ250, sounds great with my One10 and Supertwin and only 159 euro's from Thomann. Bit more power than the Elf and only slightly larger, but still dead light and small enough for me to pack in a smallish laptop bag.
Slightly warmer tone than my Ashdown ABM500 but it goes everywhere with me as my back up amp. Manages to keep up with our drummer ok