Yup! Now I have two Gibson/Tobias guitars and a Pre-Gibson Tobias bass. But a pre-Gibson 4 would have been fantastic! Anxious to see pictures when it comes in.
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Official Tobias Club
- Thread starter magneezius
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Sorry for the slight derail by posting a picture of a guitar, but... this is the Tobias thread, and I do have an illness. =)
Click image for more pictures.
This is after receiving #10 yesterday. It is much better looking in person. One day I'll take some shots in natural light. The new one has a satin finish on the neck. Feels better. Otherwise, they play just the same and sound the same.
Click image for more pictures.
This is after receiving #10 yesterday. It is much better looking in person. One day I'll take some shots in natural light. The new one has a satin finish on the neck. Feels better. Otherwise, they play just the same and sound the same.
- Jun 24, 2006
- 2,560
- 91
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: MTD basses and strings; Bergantino Amps & Cabs
He did not 'laugh all the way to the bank'...you'd be amazed at how little he got for the Tobias name...I was absolutely floored....damn near criminal what Gibson does to little companies like his...they're the bad ones here, you don't know what you're talking about. They operate just this side of the law, but far over the line of morality or fairness in business practices. They totally suck.
Mr. Tobias' instruments are flawless when they leave his hands. I own two, and have played many. Handmade basses may be a bit messy in terms of soldering inside the cavity, but so what...? As long as they work and stay together, which his do, who cares. They are made by human beings, one at a time, and are NOT going to look as slick as a factory made instrument soldered by machines, robots, and humans on carefully-engineered assembly lines where they can't waste 1 drop of solder and every motion is controlled to keep costs as low as they can get without resorting to beating people (laws prevent them from doing that, or I'm sure they'd try it to see if they could save a few tenths-of-a-cent per unit).
And as for the decline in quality, the Gibson Tobias' I have played are a pale imitation of the real deal...they look like a Tobias, they certainly don't play, sound, feel, or respond like one; they play like a machine made instrument, made of crappy woods and cheap parts which no one chose carefully or gave a flying **** about, which is what they are. Just because you can't tell the difference doesn't mean there aren't any. You can get a fibreglass Shelby with a fake chassis and a stock off the shelf V8, but it's NOTHING like the real thing...and those Korean 'Toby' things they were selling for $1,000.00 or whatever it was, I've heard from trusted sources that they cost something like $50.00 to make...
Gibson is an EVIL corporation....they turn everything they touch to ****. For example:
Trace-Elliot
Steinberger
Kramer
Tobias
Valley Arts
Maestro
Slingerland
Baldwin
Oberheim...
Have you heard ANYTHING good come out of these companies since Gibson took them over? Anything even slightly innovative, aside from the ridiculously cheap way they are now manufactured, when they used to be high-end carefully made finely-crafted instruments of the highest standing? This entire list is the worst kind of corporate junk now, made almost entirely in Asia. Profit is the ONLY thing driving that corporation; music has NOTHING to do with it, aside from them using it as a marketing gimmick.
And NONE of this comes from the mouth of Mr. Tobias, and I do not speak for him OR his company, although I endorse his basses and strings, this is entirely my own opinion. But I do have reliable sources who were near or on the inside of all this.
Gibson absolutely STINKS for bass players, and for the planet...always have. Worst 'musical instrument' company ever.
Sincerely
Cameron
Most of the bass players that haven't try a Tobais don't know what they talking about and it's just hear say. I love Tobias basses and now looking for a Basic 5 strings. One thing I will say; they have that piano sound bass tone which I love in a bass.
Excellent post, Cameron. It amazes me that more people don't see the rapacious Gibson Corporation for what it is.
Mike Tobias is a uniquely talented individual whose beautiful design work, meticulous craftsmanship and across-the-board integrity are beyond reproach. Comparing his fine handcrafted instruments to the soulless machine-made fodder that Gibson churns out with little or no quality control in an insult to one of today's finest luthiers.
I feel honored to own an original Tobias bass that Mike made to order for me back in '88. My wife and I visited the Cahuenga Blvd. shop and he turned us loose in his storage room to pick out the wood for the body top. I didn't find anything that grabbed me at first, so he spent a good half an hour pulling out choice boards and making various suggestions. You can see what we ended up with on the first page of this thread.
Later, as we were filling out the details of my order--which included a "ten" top, a custom slim neck profile and upgraded wood for the stringers--he could see that we were young and not particularly well-heeled, so he just smiled, crossed out the more-than-fair retail price and wrote in the dealer cost figure in its place, and I certainly never asked for a discount. I've owned that bass for twenty three years, and it continues to be one of the finest instruments I've ever played.
Try and get that kind of personal attention, build and material quality and value directly from the man who designed and handcrafted your next "custom" order at Gibson.
Mike Tobias is a uniquely talented individual whose beautiful design work, meticulous craftsmanship and across-the-board integrity are beyond reproach. Comparing his fine handcrafted instruments to the soulless machine-made fodder that Gibson churns out with little or no quality control in an insult to one of today's finest luthiers.
I feel honored to own an original Tobias bass that Mike made to order for me back in '88. My wife and I visited the Cahuenga Blvd. shop and he turned us loose in his storage room to pick out the wood for the body top. I didn't find anything that grabbed me at first, so he spent a good half an hour pulling out choice boards and making various suggestions. You can see what we ended up with on the first page of this thread.
Later, as we were filling out the details of my order--which included a "ten" top, a custom slim neck profile and upgraded wood for the stringers--he could see that we were young and not particularly well-heeled, so he just smiled, crossed out the more-than-fair retail price and wrote in the dealer cost figure in its place, and I certainly never asked for a discount. I've owned that bass for twenty three years, and it continues to be one of the finest instruments I've ever played.
Try and get that kind of personal attention, build and material quality and value directly from the man who designed and handcrafted your next "custom" order at Gibson.
Great story, Debased – thanks for sharing it with us.
Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
Administrator, Tobias Club
Pedulla Club #45
Big Cabs Club #23
Tobias Club
To be fair, I think part of selling the company was to help with production from the increased demand, as was Spector (to Kramer and ultimately Gibson). Turning it into a mostly import line or overpriced "custom" shop probably wasn't the original intention.
I am not defending Gibson at all.
Everyone knew who/what Gibson is/was way before Tobias came along.
If Gibson was evil in 92 it was evil before 92.
Again No one made Mike sell the company whatever the motive would be and common sense will tell you once you sell the company, it no longer belongs to you.
I still make the case that most of this has been the typical "the originals were better mentality" leading to anything past that being critiqued to death and I can see how some would be upset at that statement. I do not mean to offend.
The first I ever heard talk of poor quality was from Mike on the phone in 92. I know a little bit about neck through Bass construction. I do not knock the MTD's at all I'm sure they are excellent quality. Neck through Basses they are not. Yes he will build you one and yes you will pay but folks complained about Gibson's prices as well.
As far as I am concerned saying you played a poorly made Gibson Bass counts for nothing. I have read every thread on Talkbass about these Basses. There is not one example of actual "here it is" proof.
Like I said before the closest I could find that did raise an eyebrow was rejected Basses being made out the back door. I could see how quality could get poor real quick in this manner and I have seen this situation before.
Sloppy wiring is sloppy wiring whatever you choose to think about it. No matter whether it is done by hand or by machine. If the pigs will eat it then call it what it is.
Everyone knew who/what Gibson is/was way before Tobias came along.
If Gibson was evil in 92 it was evil before 92.
Again No one made Mike sell the company whatever the motive would be and common sense will tell you once you sell the company, it no longer belongs to you.
I still make the case that most of this has been the typical "the originals were better mentality" leading to anything past that being critiqued to death and I can see how some would be upset at that statement. I do not mean to offend.
The first I ever heard talk of poor quality was from Mike on the phone in 92. I know a little bit about neck through Bass construction. I do not knock the MTD's at all I'm sure they are excellent quality. Neck through Basses they are not. Yes he will build you one and yes you will pay but folks complained about Gibson's prices as well.
As far as I am concerned saying you played a poorly made Gibson Bass counts for nothing. I have read every thread on Talkbass about these Basses. There is not one example of actual "here it is" proof.
Like I said before the closest I could find that did raise an eyebrow was rejected Basses being made out the back door. I could see how quality could get poor real quick in this manner and I have seen this situation before.
Sloppy wiring is sloppy wiring whatever you choose to think about it. No matter whether it is done by hand or by machine. If the pigs will eat it then call it what it is.
Being passionate in favor of early Mike masterpieces = OK.
Not liking Gibson as your own opinion = OK. (I don't either)
Stating that all Gibson/Nashville made Tobias instruments are lousy = irrational/not well informed.
BTW I spent some time working with the technical folks in the Nashville shop to upgrade the electronics on a Mike Signature. Mike supported that. They were perfectly great and knowledgeable to deal with. Making the generalization that you don't like Gibson, therefore everyone who worked there is scum = ignorant.
Making inferences that any bass player who plays a Nashville made instrument is a fool and doesn't know what they are talking about = ignorant and provocative.
Guys, its cool to feel strongly positive about Mike and his instruments; but, lets be respectful and not let the animosity toward the big corporate mistakes boil over into unreasonable discourse between bass brothers and sisters. Not that anyone has done so; just sayin'.
GL2A
Not liking Gibson as your own opinion = OK. (I don't either)
Stating that all Gibson/Nashville made Tobias instruments are lousy = irrational/not well informed.
BTW I spent some time working with the technical folks in the Nashville shop to upgrade the electronics on a Mike Signature. Mike supported that. They were perfectly great and knowledgeable to deal with. Making the generalization that you don't like Gibson, therefore everyone who worked there is scum = ignorant.
Making inferences that any bass player who plays a Nashville made instrument is a fool and doesn't know what they are talking about = ignorant and provocative.
Guys, its cool to feel strongly positive about Mike and his instruments; but, lets be respectful and not let the animosity toward the big corporate mistakes boil over into unreasonable discourse between bass brothers and sisters. Not that anyone has done so; just sayin'.
GL2A
Wow, lot of vitriol spewin' about Gibson. Fact is, they do make some great instruments. I'm sure Mike's own work was superior, but reality is I've played a lot of great Gibson-made Tobias basses. May not be as good as Mike's but it doesn't automatically make them crap.
Rate each creation on it's own merits. Even with mass-produced, no two instruments are exactly the same.
Rate each creation on it's own merits. Even with mass-produced, no two instruments are exactly the same.
Well, I know from previous threads that Cameron and Debased are both pretty passionate about Mike's pieces and unhappy about the way things went. And, they are in some pretty good company with other TB'ers.
But, the Nashville shop actually did have a few folks that did care and knew what they were doing. And if you look at the statistics, something like 2000 instruments came out of the Hollywood and Burbank shops from the original staff versus something more like 10,000 that subsequently came out of the Nashville shop. I mean, I can pick out the differences in a couple seconds, but that doesn't mean all of those 10,000 instruments were duds. There are quite factually a number of excellent knowledgeable players using those today to make great music.
The thing I've been wondering is since Gibson has formally given up on the designs, maybe Mike can get back to them? I know he has "moved on" with his bolt-ons. But, I do see a few more neck-throughs coming out of his shop; and they are starting to look more like the original platform. Anyway, here's hoping.
But, the Nashville shop actually did have a few folks that did care and knew what they were doing. And if you look at the statistics, something like 2000 instruments came out of the Hollywood and Burbank shops from the original staff versus something more like 10,000 that subsequently came out of the Nashville shop. I mean, I can pick out the differences in a couple seconds, but that doesn't mean all of those 10,000 instruments were duds. There are quite factually a number of excellent knowledgeable players using those today to make great music.
The thing I've been wondering is since Gibson has formally given up on the designs, maybe Mike can get back to them? I know he has "moved on" with his bolt-ons. But, I do see a few more neck-throughs coming out of his shop; and they are starting to look more like the original platform. Anyway, here's hoping.
- Jun 24, 2006
- 2,560
- 91
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: MTD basses and strings; Bergantino Amps & Cabs
As I understand it from a source close to it at the time, he was squeezed so badly by them he had to virtually give it up or else. It was NOT done nicely at all...hardball all the way...they put the boots to him. And financially it was a TOTAL joke. His only crime was building basses so beautiful and SO good, everybody on the planet wanted one and he couldn't make them fast enough.
And Gibson totally sucks, I'm sorry.
Guess you don't mind what they did to Trace either...or Steinberger, or Oberheim, or...
We were THIS CLOSE to loosing tc electronic to them as well a couple of years ago...thank GOD that fell through...
Nobody has said that but you. I just said the Nashville instruments were nowhere NEAR as good as what Mr. T himself built, and anyone who has played a few will attest to that. The few Nashville era ones I have played were OK, certainly not stellar, and pale by comparison to the pre-Gibson ones I have played, which have been extraordinary. And the Korean/whatever ones I have played were a crime against music/humanity considering they were at first still trying to charge what Mr. T. did for a completely machine made instrument. Horrid things, for $6,000.00, OK for about $1200.00 or less. Ridiculous. They'll try to get away with ANYTHING...completely, 100% ruthless.
And I stand by my Gibson statements 100%...Ptooey! And if this wasn't a family friendly forum, I'd say much worse.
Cameron
Oh I see, Gibson made Mike sell Tobias to them or else. And Mike's desire to increase production was to feed the hungry starving Bass Players of the world. 
Again I'm not defending Gibson.
They have done poorly with a number of companies. Does not make them evil either though. Of coarse in the Tobias venture it did not help that folks were going around saying how bad they were and issuing no proof of it. Gibson could not give these away.
Very few purchased companies go on to continue and flourish because of the mentality that original units had magic mojo.
As far as the specialness of the original units I'm sure they are special. Not many of them were 100 percent built by Mike so can we start a 100 percent built by Mike Club?
With the understanding that these units have extra secret magic mojo juice in them.
All is good.
Again I'm not defending Gibson.
They have done poorly with a number of companies. Does not make them evil either though. Of coarse in the Tobias venture it did not help that folks were going around saying how bad they were and issuing no proof of it. Gibson could not give these away.
Very few purchased companies go on to continue and flourish because of the mentality that original units had magic mojo.
As far as the specialness of the original units I'm sure they are special. Not many of them were 100 percent built by Mike so can we start a 100 percent built by Mike Club?
With the understanding that these units have extra secret magic mojo juice in them. All is good.
I am looking to purchase a Tobias Basic, Classic, or Signature. If anyone knows someone wanting to sell send them my way!! My email address is [email protected]
Thanks
Thanks
As I understand it from a source close to it at the time, he was squeezed so badly by them he had to virtually give it up or else. It was NOT done nicely at all...hardball all the way...they put the boots to him. And financially it was a TOTAL joke. His only crime was building basses so beautiful and SO good, everybody on the planet wanted one and he couldn't make them fast enough.
And Gibson totally sucks, I'm sorry.
Guess you don't mind what they did to Trace either...or Steinberger, or Oberheim, or...
We were THIS CLOSE to loosing tc electronic to them as well a couple of years ago...thank GOD that fell through...
Nobody has said that but you. I just said the Nashville instruments were nowhere NEAR as good as what Mr. T himself built, and anyone who has played a few will attest to that. The few Nashville era ones I have played were OK, certainly not stellar, and pale by comparison to the pre-Gibson ones I have played, which have been extraordinary. And the Korean/whatever ones I have played were a crime against music/humanity considering they were at first still trying to charge what Mr. T. did for a completely machine made instrument. Horrid things, for $6,000.00, OK for about $1200.00 or less. Ridiculous. They'll try to get away with ANYTHING...completely, 100% ruthless.
And I stand by my Gibson statements 100%...Ptooey! And if this wasn't a family friendly forum, I'd say much worse.
Cameron
Get a life, man.
Thank you for chiming in bucephylus, it's good to see another perspective on the subject.
And thanks to all, even Bassflute. Though I have touched a nerve here, I did not intend to. There is room for all our perspectives.
At this point I believe it's safe to say that Gibson made some good Basses. I should know I have one.
I can see why Mike does not make many neck through Basses as it's way more labor/time intensive. The Bolt On is a natural progression for a builder like this, given the effort involved.
At todays costs it would be difficult to sell many of these in this economy.
A Neck Through has this built in natural compression that (I've not seen/heard/played) has yet to be duplicated in a Bolt On. Nothing at all wrong with a high quality Bolt On, just a different animal.
To me it's sad that the original Neck Through Tobias is gone from production. Like Leo Fender, Mike got it right the first time. His original design just worked.
And thanks to all, even Bassflute. Though I have touched a nerve here, I did not intend to. There is room for all our perspectives.
At this point I believe it's safe to say that Gibson made some good Basses. I should know I have one.
I can see why Mike does not make many neck through Basses as it's way more labor/time intensive. The Bolt On is a natural progression for a builder like this, given the effort involved.
At todays costs it would be difficult to sell many of these in this economy.
A Neck Through has this built in natural compression that (I've not seen/heard/played) has yet to be duplicated in a Bolt On. Nothing at all wrong with a high quality Bolt On, just a different animal.
To me it's sad that the original Neck Through Tobias is gone from production. Like Leo Fender, Mike got it right the first time. His original design just worked.
Toby's are wonderful instruments.
I know there has been a lot of...lets say controversy regarding Tobias basses, but at the end of the day, whether you own a boutique quality pre-gibson or a production line Tobias, they are unique instruments. We should all be proud that we own (or used to) own them.
My Toby is still my main axe. It plays like no other bass I've ever owned or played and bears more battle scars than a 70s p bass...and it was made it Nashville.
I know there has been a lot of...lets say controversy regarding Tobias basses, but at the end of the day, whether you own a boutique quality pre-gibson or a production line Tobias, they are unique instruments. We should all be proud that we own (or used to) own them.
My Toby is still my main axe. It plays like no other bass I've ever owned or played and bears more battle scars than a 70s p bass...and it was made it Nashville.
