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Official Zon Club Part 2
- Thread starter Bryan R. Tyler
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As a side note, I played a fretless Sabre and didn't dig it at all. The playability was great, but the tone was cold, ultra-modern, and brittle. That was their preamp tho... I imagine the pickup system feeding a traditional preamp (which I'm assuming is also possible) could be a whole new ballgame.
The Sabres are absolutely horrible imo- though I like the fretted better actually (which is a reverse of the situation with every other brand of Lightwave-equipped bass I've played). The old ones sounded like crap and were built even worse and the new ones are built okay but still sound awful.
I don't know why they have so much trouble making them sound good when the Zons sounded great for what it was, but it is not a successful venture for them to be sure. But they had to do it, because traditional brands dropped using Lightwave systems because they were so unreliable and poorly constructed after they started out sourcing the boards/assembly.
I don't know why they have so much trouble making them sound good when the Zons sounded great for what it was, but it is not a successful venture for them to be sure. But they had to do it, because traditional brands dropped using Lightwave systems because they were so unreliable and poorly constructed after they started out sourcing the boards/assembly.
Many moons ago, I tried to get Zon to build me a 6er with Lightwave electronics. They said HELL no. I then tried to get Conklin to do it and they also refused to do so. Shame since it's definitely an interesting concept.
Mine, mine, all mine!!!
When I get my other fretless back from The Repair Zone, I'll take pix of my three Zons so I can be officially in the club...
Well, there are a few things to consider... and it's entirely possible they made great strides with the system since I tried it... so caveat lector on this...
The sound of an electromagnetic interaction is what we're all used to, and an opto-mechanical interaction is going to sound different. IMHO, in opposition to their claims, it's NOT just simply/strictly about detecting string movement, and elimination of the magnetic effect on motion is not necessarily an improvement... it's just a difference subject to personal preference (taking a "hit" on familiarity as well).
The other thing is, and admittedly, this should be a one-time "problem", but any time you change your action settings, you have to individually recalibrate each string. The reason is, for most setups, the difference in string location at the sensor when fretting at the first fret, vs the last fret, is pretty much at least, if not slightly more than, it's ideal range (fretting at the last fret is very low in the sensor's range, fretting at the first fret is very high in its range). So any adjustment... even a modest one, would require the recalibration procedure. It took me a whole evening to figure out how to "balance" the setup... I had to figure out which strings sounded better when they pushed the sensor range on the low side vs the high side.
Finally, does all this mean the whole opto-mechanical idea is bad? NO!!! Just means it's a personal taste thing, and at least in my case, a different friggin' preamp for a fretless. I didn't get a chance to play a fretted, but I always figured the tone of that Sabre I had would go MUCH better with a fretted... as Angus said. For a fretless tho... I could not think of a worse tonal base. My gosh. It was about as anti-organic as it gets, which is a total deal breaker for me on a fretless. Cold and clinical. Tonal suckage to the Nth power.
Perhaps they improved since I inquired, but this was ~2006, so I wouldn't think it would have improved leaps and bounds. Both builders said it was an issue with reliability than tone.
I thought some of the fretless tones I heard seemed to sound cool, but I've never had a chance to play one myself. I think a few luthiers simply refuse to install them, so I don't see myself owning one unless they really improve them over the next couple of years.
I guess I can see that. When I was adjusting the sensors, they did at least seem like they'd be somewhat fragile, and a touring musician might have some risk here.
The other potential tonal impact is, the system takes a LOT of space. There was a HUGE route on the back of the Sabre to accommodate the system.
- Dec 23, 2008
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- Staff Producer / Audio Engineer: Blue Tower Studio, Denver, CO & Mighty Fine Productions, Denver, CO
Also, depending on exactly how many moons ago this was, the original S1 system was built into a monolithic bridge and I bet they just didn't make a sixer.
From S2 onward, each string is its own little individual "bridge", alleviating the problem noted below and I bet it would be no problem to accommodate any number of strings. (But also perhaps the onboard preamps which are built onto a single circuit board are a factor.)
There were *definitely* design deficiencies with the S1.. I noticed that my B and E strings were not passing thru the sensors in the middle (way closer to one side than the other), and they didn't sound as clear & detailed as the other strings: the optical sensor is "focused" on a point right in the middle and due to a little bit of skew, those strings were not being "read" optimally and you could tell. Lightwave kindly sent me some new saddles for the B & E strings with the string slot offset when I asked them if there was a solution.
It's worth mentioning that I received over-the-top good customer service from Lightwave, I also had some problems with the voltage regulator on the charger overheating. I eventually, with a little info from their techs, installed an additional heat sink which fixed that problem.
Cheers, j
p.s. I also know that the instrument I have was one of the earliest Zon prototypes of the Lightwave system. I remember calling Zon for some advice about one thing or another, I was impressed that they pretty much immediately patched me through to Joe Zon. He asked me what the serial number on my instrument was, looked it up and was like "ummmm, where did you get that bass?". Funny.
I think the sensors/housing seemed to be fragile and risky. Conklin basically told me that they didn't want to sell me an unreliable bass.
I can see the routing being a pain for luthiers.
From a practicality perspective, the Lightwave System is unique, but a piezo and 2 mags would seem to make more sense.
from a practicality standpoint, you are right - but I have never heard a bass that has the same sound as a fretless lightwave.
I don't know what Conklin's issue was, as I know companies like F Bass (iirc) have built 6 string Lightwave basses, but once the individual string Lightwave bridges were available (the S2 version) you could do 6-string setups. I know Zon's problem was on certainly one, but probably two fronts: a) they for sure didn't make a compatible neck yet, as Lightwave bridge ensured a minimum 19mm string width, and they didn't make a 19mm 6-string neck until ~2009 or late 2008, and b) by the time you asked them in 2006 they'd stopped using Lightwave stuff because by then they'd gotten too expensive and horrifically unreliable. They stopped making Lightwave-equipped stuff altogether for the latter reason.
Yeah, don't get the wrong impression about the company- they're very small, personnel-wise. Getting patched to Joe just means yelling less than 100 ft away usually, if he's in the shop at that moment. This is not a massive company here. They'll always get Joe on the phone if there is any big issue, and often he's the one that answers the phone initially anyway.
True on both accounts. I'm not saying a piezo+mags is better, but it's good enough without any real weaknesses. Tim Landers used to have some phenominal clips on his site.
Definitely suspecting the latter reasons, unfortuantely.
Yeah, I think so, too. I don't know when they made their last Lightwave bass, but it was probably around then or before.
I've been looking through TB and the Zon Club without finding an answer.
Does anybody know when Zon introduced the truss rod in its necks as standard ?
Thank you
Does anybody know when Zon introduced the truss rod in its necks as standard ?
Thank you
Just call them up and ask. It was something like 6 years ago when they started, and it wasn't an off/on switchover.
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