Official Zon Club Part 5

[SBassman]

Interesting, but I don't know if I agree. Isn't the allure of these basses really in the quality of the build, finish, setup, and playability, and not in all the custom options?

I'd argue that some of these builders would sell More with the instant gratification of being able to order such a Fine Instrument - that actually exists and will ship.

 

[packrat]

There's quite a lot of air between 'not great communication and tends to run late on orders' and all the stuff which was asserted in front of a bunch of potential Zon customers in that other thread.

 

[Fuzzbass]

There's quite a lot of air between 'not great communication and tends to run late on orders' and all the stuff which was asserted in front of a bunch of potential Zon customers in that other thread.

Since you're going there: one of the TB customers has been waiting over two years and has been repeatedly lied to, when he hasn't been ignored completely. That's a far cry from your description.

 

[packrat]

Didn't someone a few posts up offer to take his spot in the queue and pay him the deposit money back?

I don't think anyone is asserting Zon couldn't do a lot better at the customer facing stuff, however we are asserting that claims of moustache-twirling nefarious behaviour seem to continue to be unjustified, especially given the provenance of the claims which sparked this recent discussion.

 

[packrat]

Interesting, but I don't know if I agree. Isn't the allure of these basses really in the quality of the build, finish, setup, and playability, and not in all the custom options?

I'd argue that some of these builders would sell More with the instant gratification of being able to order such a Fine Instrument - that actually exists and will ship.

They might be able to sell more, but they wouldn't be able to produce more at significantly lower prices the way the Fenders of the world do because they don't have the scale to make capital investments to allow them to scale. And I'm not sure the appeal of really nice generic basses is there.

That said, dealers do order basses to spec expecting to be able to sell them later, so maybe that's it. Needs a dealer network, though, and enough volume to make them confident they could move the basses.

B>

 

[packrat]

Also, to echo my earlier post, I think a lot of small boutique builders are putting art of instrument making pretty high, sometimes even slightly (or a lot) ahead of make-lots-of-money.

I know some folks have managed to (over typically a very long period time) managed to get both, e.g Spector, Fodera, Dingwall, Sadowsky, but I think they were all pretty stretched in doing so, especially Spector in its various acquisitions or Dingwall having to add a non-custom line to be viable (actually most of them have at this point). All this makes me much less confident that there are good easy solutions here.

 

[Fuzzbass]

Didn't someone a few posts up offer to take his spot in the queue and pay him the deposit money back?

How exactly does that put Zon in a better light?

I don't think anyone is asserting Zon couldn't do a lot better at the customer facing stuff, however we are asserting that claims of moustache-twirling nefarious behaviour seem to continue to be unjustified, especially given the provenance of the claims which sparked this recent discussion.

Multiple customers waiting 2-3 years for basses, and being repeatedly lied to. Okay, maybe there's no mustache-twirling, but it's borderline nefarious, and absolutely inexcusable.

 

[packrat]

I always get alarmed when we go from "one customer" to "multiple customers" between posts, because it always seems we're headed towards claims of kitten homicide and piracy on the high seas.

 

[IronLung1986]

I don't think anyone is asserting Zon couldn't do a lot better at the customer facing stuff, however we are asserting that claims of moustache-twirling nefarious behaviour seem to continue to be unjustified, especially given the provenance of the claims which sparked this recent discussion.

That's a straw man. No one characterized Zon that way. You're painting it that way to downplay the claims and discredit those who made them.

 

[Ryan L.]

Interesting, but I don't know if I agree. Isn't the allure of these basses really in the quality of the build, finish, setup, and playability, and not in all the custom options?

I'd argue that some of these builders would sell More with the instant gratification of being able to order such a Fine Instrument - that actually exists and will ship.

Unless there are certain options a player/buyer wants that aren’t normal stock options. In my case, I wanted 5 string basses with 20mm bridge spacing and 2” wide at the nut. Not a common option, and the only 5’s that come stock that way that I could find were Warwick SSI’s (which I owned a few of). So, enter Roscoe Guitars, and their willingness to build me exactly the basses I wanted. Not something that was on their normal menu, but after Gard talked to Keith about it, they had no problems doing it for me.

I think there will always be a market for true customs, for reasons like that, among many others. In my opinion, obviously.

 

[andrew]

Unless there are certain options a player/buyer wants that aren’t normal stock options.

Said every left handed guy ever.

 

[Ryan L.]

Said every left handed guy ever.

Very good point, and one I didn’t even consider!

 

[packrat]

That's a straw man. No one characterized Zon that way. You're painting it that way to downplay the claims and discredit those who made them.

You might have missed the message from the mods above in this thread and possibly the entire now-deleted warning thread, but that's what the characterisation was.

 

[mrgittleman]

Thank you Bryan. Lesson learned. I was hoping to wait on the sidelines until some conclusions were reached but issues were raised that I felt needed to be addressed. If there had been any honest communication between said luthier and myself, the reasons for posting the details of my situation would have been eliminated. The waiting is difficult but not as intolerable as the disrespect created by the lies. I’m open to any positive suggestions on how to resolve this situation (deposits are non transferable) so please PM. Thank to those of you who have been supportive and I will post when a conclusion is reached.

 

[SIU]

To be truth, there is one other guy (not MB) wait for 3 years and get nothing that also posted on the warning post. Is it normal to order a custom bass for 3 yrs and the bass dont even started building? Personally I thought it is an extreme delay around the market...

 

[Fuzzbass]

I always get alarmed when we go from "one customer" to "multiple customers" between posts

To be truth, there is one other guy (not MB) wait for 3 years and get nothing that also posted on the warning post. Is it normal to order a custom bass for 3 yrs and the bass dont even started building? Personally I thought it is an extreme delay around the market...

TWO other Talkbassers in the 3-year range -- that I'm aware of. One prefers not to speak about it much so I won't mention his name, and then there's mrgittleman (I'll mention his name because he posted just above) who was pretty much waiting on the sidelines as well, until recently. Both have posted in this thread.

There's another TBer who waited 3 years and did finally get his bass last year. His unfortunate story can be found in this thread.

Finally, I know a guy who is still waiting after close to two years and is enduring a string of broken delivery date promises.

It's laughable to say "well hey, sometimes stuff happens with custom boutiques -- if you can't tolerate a 2-3 year wait then don't order one". I agree with SIU: 2-3 year waits are extreme -- especially so with no apparent progress and terrible communication.

I'm not here to bash Zon. My custom was only one month late, which is routine for customs and was reasonably tolerable despite the poor communication. I read this thread before ordering and was aware of extreme delays, but pulled the trigger because I bought into claims that Zon had fixed their production issues. I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from ordering, just making sure all the facts remain on record: many of us get a great bass in a reasonable time frame, but there are still some extreme glitches in the system (being polite here).

 

[andrew]

Has anyone seen pics or have pics of what basses Zon had at the Bass Bash on the weekend?

 

[Ironbar]

Thank you for the follow-up and for handling this. The damage to Zon will linger for ages unfortunately, but hopefully they'll recover.

Methinks you seriously overestimate people's attention span. This will be forgotten in two weeks.

 

[Angus]

TWO other Talkbassers in the 3-year range -- that I'm aware of. One prefers not to speak about it much so I won't mention his name, and then there's mrgittleman (I'll mention his name because he posted just above) who was pretty much waiting on the sidelines as well, until recently. Both have posted in this thread.

There's another TBer who waited 3 years and did finally get his bass last year. His unfortunate story can be found in this thread.

Finally, I know a guy who is still waiting after close to two years and is enduring a string of broken delivery date promises.

And I'll be honest- my wait is much longer than all of these, but there has been communication the whole time. My previous instruments were all on time.

 

[Grahams Groove]

TWO other Talkbassers in the 3-year range -- that I'm aware of. One prefers not to speak about it much so I won't mention his name, and then there's mrgittleman (I'll mention his name because he posted just above) who was pretty much waiting on the sidelines as well, until recently. Both have posted in this thread.

There's another TBer who waited 3 years and did finally get his bass last year. His unfortunate story can be found in this thread.

Finally, I know a guy who is still waiting after close to two years and is enduring a string of broken delivery date promises.

It's laughable to say "well hey, sometimes stuff happens with custom boutiques -- if you can't tolerate a 2-3 year wait then don't order one". I agree with SIU: 2-3 year waits are extreme -- especially so with no apparent progress and terrible communication.

I'm not here to bash Zon. My custom was only one month late, which is routine for customs and was reasonably tolerable despite the poor communication. I read this thread before ordering and was aware of extreme delays, but pulled the trigger because I bought into claims that Zon had fixed their production issues. I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from ordering, just making sure all the facts remain on record: many of us get a great bass in a reasonable time frame, but there are still some extreme glitches in the system (being polite here).

Excellent post. The comment I bolded is probably the most important part of the saga that has ensued over the warning thread & comments made here. I think a lot of people are viewing it as two camps, versus an opportunity to share/discuss as much info as possible. (I don't agree with every aspect of how this was apparently handled by MB or Zon in this specific case, but that's been discussed at length.)

In any case, I don't understand why anyone would show such loyalty to a brand that they seemingly wish to discount the negative purchase experiences that have been voiced by multiple customers. I use TB heavily when I make gear purchases. The larger the ticket, the more I pour over threads before spending my hard-earned money. No matter how good one's experiences are with a company, that doesn't negate other instances where they have dropped the ball. That's great if it's never happened to the brand loyalists. But if I'm the next guy putting my money on the line, I want to know if I'm taking a chance - even if it's a small chance with a mostly reputable company.