• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Ohms and Watts. Sorry. Really sorry.

#83
Al Kraft said:
I think you could make that argument within a specific context, however, typically "sound" is something differentiated from the rest of the EM spectrum as "requiring a medium through which to propagate". Ultrasound is great example of something that can be proven to be present, propagating, and detectable via the right combination of sensors and processors - and your ears and brain don't qualify as the right equipment to hear/detect "sound" in this frequency range.
Click to expand...

Sound actually is the very specific range of frequencies that can be detected by a human or animal ear... ultrasonic and subsonic frequencies therefore aren't sound in the strict sense of the word. Of course if I were an alien who could detect vibration in the megahertz or gigahertz range that would be sound to me but not to a human. I'm not, by the way. An alien. Although I could be an alien pedant.

If the original question were "if a tree falls in a forest with no-one there to hear it, does it still make a noise?" rather than "a sound" then the answer would of course be yes. If a tree falls in a forest and lands on a pedant are there less or fewer pedants? Pedant is my word of the day :)
 
#84
ficelles said:
Sound actually is the very specific range of frequencies that can be detected by a human or animal ear... ultrasonic and subsonic frequencies therefore aren't sound in the strict sense of the word. Of course if I were an alien who could detect vibration in the megahertz or gigahertz range that would be sound to me but not to a human. I'm not, by the way. An alien. Although I could be an alien pedant.

If the original question were "if a tree falls in a forest with no-one there to hear it, does it still make a noise?" rather than "a sound" then the answer would of course be yes. If a tree falls in a forest and lands on a pedant are there less or fewer pedants? Pedant is my word of the day :)
Click to expand...
I'm an engineer, and to me your point sort of depends on whether you''re asking a physicist or a philosopher to answer the question. From a purely scientific point of view something like the sun is actually blindingly bright even if the only people staring up at it are in fact already blind. A sound that can't be heard by a profoundly deaf person, but could have been heard if they weren't deaf, is still a sound.

A philosopher might want to argue that something only exists or is real when it is observed/sensed/experienced and the reality of that moment is the only one that matters, ergo it defines the event and establishes existence. While interesting to contemplate, as an engineer I really can't make much use of that in design. When I look at SPLs associated with jet engines or detonation of energetic materials I can assure you the sounds are very real even if I find a way to protect you from hearing or being injured by them.

I'll accept your philosophical possibility that something is only what it is because someone actually experienced it, but I'll stay with my definition for the practical matters I typically deal with. As a final thought, the first sentence in your second paragraph relies on a working definition of "noise" that is generally not well aligned with general practice - for most people, at least in the acoustical fields I deal with, noise is most commonly defined as "unwanted sound". ;)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Bob Lee (QSC), HolmeBass, Pops OB and 1 other person
#85
Now I'm starting to like this thread! And I thought it was going to be another read the stickies thread.

Some people (maybe animals) with synesthesia see colors when sound get's to their brains. That could be cool if you could train yourself. I might enjoy some other kinds of music more. I've read it ties into perfect pitch.

One synesthete to another synesthete: "If a tree falls in the woods and and nobody is around the hear it, what color is it?" ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Al Kraft
#86
bassistheplaceofcourse said:
I've looked at the amp FAQs, and tried to search. Sorry to ask something that seems basic, but I'm just looking for a simple confirmation here.

If my amp output is 250W @ 4 ohms, and I daisy chain two 8 ohm 300w power handling cabs, do I have two cabs each getting 125W? Or effectively one larger combined cab getting 250W?

I just trying to make sure I would not be underpowering the two cabs.
Click to expand...
Let's simplify it.
You have an Eden WT500 and two 8 ohm cabs.
It has a Left and a Right Power Amp Output. These can each handle a 4ohm load @250W.
And a Bridged output. This can only handle an 8 ohm load but @500w.
Plug one cab in the Right channel.
Plug the other cab into the Left channel.
Each 8 ohm cab cab will get about 175 watts.
Make sure the Bridged Button on the front of the amp is Disengaged. (Led off).
Make sure the Balance knob is at 12:00.
You're now finished your setup.

OR

If you have a good 8 ohm 410 or another multi driver cab that'll handle over 500w (DNA, DNS410 in my case), plug it into the Bridged Output and Engage the Bridge Button (Led On) on the front of the amp.
I had this setup for a few years and it was plenty loud.

Hope this helps clear the thought process.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: bassistheplaceofcourse
#87
seamonkey said:
Now I'm starting to like this thread! And I thought it was going to be another read the stickies thread.

Some people (maybe animals) with synesthesia see colors when sound get's to their brains. That could be cool if you could train yourself. I might enjoy some other kinds of music more. I've read it ties into perfect pitch.

One synesthete to another synesthete: "If a tree falls in the woods and and nobody is around the hear it, what color is it?" ;)
Click to expand...

Never done ? Not only do you see sound, you taste memories and sneeze colors. The neural circuitry goes haywire. Any element of consciousness can morph into any other, and you realize the brain is normally just a narrow notch filter, letting in only those stimuli that are necessary for survival.
 
#89
Spidey2112 said:
What Dave said, and what Two said really fast... OP, you are correct in your math... the amp effectively sees two 8 ohm cabs as a 4 ohm load, thereby maximizing your amps output, @ 250 watts, splitting the output evenly...

... define, 'daisy chain'...
Click to expand...

upload_2017-4-4_21-17-34.png
 
#90
Ric5 said:
UNDERPOWERING CABS IS A MYTH
Click to expand...
...and one I could never figure out why it was so easy to buy into...I mean we've all turned down a volume control at some point in our lives and probably not a one of us ever saw a speaker burst into flames or launch parts out of the cabinet because we did it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bob Lee (QSC)
#91
Al Kraft said:
...and one I could never figure out why it was so easy to buy into...I mean we've all turned down a volume control at some point in our lives and probably not a one of us ever saw a speaker burst into flames or launch parts out of the cabinet because we did it.
Click to expand...

If underpowering is bad then unplugging would be devastating

I underpower my cabs all the time ... my main head is 150 watts and my cabs can easily handle a lot more ...

Now on the other hand overpowering can blow speakers ...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bob Lee (QSC) and Al Kraft
#92
Al Kraft said:
...and one I could never figure out why it was so easy to buy into...I mean we've all turned down a volume control at some point in our lives and probably not a one of us ever saw a speaker burst into flames or launch parts out of the cabinet because we did it.
Click to expand...

It is like the myth that if you stand closer that 15 or 20 feet you can't properly hear your bass because the sound wave has to develop ... what about headphones?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bob Lee (QSC)
#93
Dave W said:
You have a 4 ohm load with both cabs connected.
Your amp can output 250w into a 4 ohm load.
Each cab is getting 125w.

There is no such thing as underpowering.
Click to expand...

Yes -there is such a thing as underpowering. Having an amp with less power than you need for certain gigs is a performance limitation. Having too much amp power is like having a car with a big engine - most of the time you don't need it; but when you want or need to go fast, there is no substitute for power.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bassistheplaceofcourse
#96
Al Kraft said:
I think you could make that argument within a specific context, however, typically "sound" is something differentiated from the rest of the EM spectrum as "requiring a medium through which to propagate". Ultrasound is great example of something that can be proven to be present, propagating, and detectable via the right combination of sensors and processors - and your ears and brain don't qualify as the right equipment to hear/detect "sound" in this frequency range.
Click to expand...
Sound is not part of the EM (electro-magnetic) spectrum. Sound is a pressure wave, thus the need for a medium of propagation. EM waves are radio waves, micro waves, infrared, visible light, ultraviolet, on up through X-rays.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Al Kraft
#98
Gizmot said:
Yes -there is such a thing as underpowering. Having an amp with less power than you need for certain gigs is a performance limitation. Having too much amp power is like having a car with a big engine - most of the time you don't need it; but when you want or need to go fast, there is no substitute for power.
Click to expand...

You're taking that completely out of context from the original discussion.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bob Lee (QSC)

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back