Pbassmanca
In the pocket n' thumpy. So woody, so greasy...
If I had to compete with guitarists like that I would get a couple Mesa Powerhouse 412's or 610's to blast at them out of pure spite....
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Ok...tired subject, but I need advice.
- Thread starter dukey donkey
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Pbassmanca
In the pocket n' thumpy. So woody, so greasy...
Ric5
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- Jan 29, 2008
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The classic metal bass tone is scooped mids … the reason is the guitars detune and play through 4x12 cabs and that is often the only sonic space left, but it sounds like you don't like that tone. Try boosting mids and maybe adding a powered sub. As per the mids … you have high mids and low mids try boosting one or both and see how it works. As per the powered sub that can allow you to have a low end below the tone of the detuned guitars.
Personally I like a Rickenbacker for Metal … It worked for Cliff Burton
So bass and treble are flat, your mids in the 100-125, which you need to punch in the mix, is cut, and therein is an issue. From the sound of your controls, it doesn’t sound like you have the ability to increase that range.
The second issue is why are you working with guitarists playing with 40 year old technology? Stacks went out of vogue in the 70s. If I ever see or hear a guitarist say he needs to play through a stack to work with me, it ain’t happening. If they feel they need to be that loud, odds are they aren’t all that,
Finally, I would highly recommend you got through the FOH as much as possible. When it isn’t, frankly, you don’t have enough gear to make it work combating stacks. JMO
I think your guit players need HPFs set to 150hz or so. Keep them out of the low bass freqs.
They're probably stepping all over you.
They're probably stepping all over you.
In order to make your point out front I humbly suggest all of the gear listed below. Also a aby box.
1. SVT Classic and 8x10 cab for the mids.
2. a pair of Trace Elliot 1048's for the lows and highs with an AH series head or if ya wanna get really loud an old beat a$$ Hartke HA3500 head off CL for less than $200.00
3. enjoy.
4. ibuprofen...you're going to be sore until you get used to moving all that crap but it will be so worth it.
1. SVT Classic and 8x10 cab for the mids.
2. a pair of Trace Elliot 1048's for the lows and highs with an AH series head or if ya wanna get really loud an old beat a$$ Hartke HA3500 head off CL for less than $200.00
3. enjoy.
4. ibuprofen...you're going to be sore until you get used to moving all that crap but it will be so worth it.
Y'all are going to laugh... I think I have been over thinking it... Just reset my eq to the rock control settings from the manual...turned off the deep and high switches... and cranked the hpf back to around 11:00.... I think my problem may be fixed. I'll see next jam session... Hey... @agedhorse you probably should've just sent me back to the drawing board... lol I should have just listened to the suggestions from the guys that made the dang thing...? Preposterous! 
OP dude is that you wallace? This is Steve your fellow TXK bass warrior.
- Feb 12, 2006
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Part of your challenge is that the driver's raw efficiency is quite low compared with other options, and the voicing is fairly dark too. This is assuming that the box is properly tuned for the driver, which hasn't been established.
drumvsbass
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- Aug 20, 2011
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with a D800+ and 6x12... I find it unbelievable that you are struggling.
There should be plenty of low end and punch with that. Although not so much if you beat the mids down into submission. What's your EQ like?
HPF at 30Hz I assume you mean, so at its lowest setting.
You're cutting low and high mids. Not a lot, but actually boosting low mids may give you more 'punch'. Try boosting them quite a bit and use the frequency control to sweep across its range to see if you find where it gives you 'punch', then back off the boost to the point where it sounds right to you.
Voicing control... I'd turn that down a bit too, maybe even down to 11 o'clock or less.
But I still think that with a 412 plus a 212 you should not be lacking that much. Your amp controls don't seem extreme at all. How's your bass? Do you have a preamp there? How do you run it? If you suck the life out of the bass at source the amplifier is not going to be able to restore it.
As you mention the cabs are home made... I feel inclined, like others, to think that your main problem may be there. There's a lot more to building a good cab than good carpentry and putting a bunch of speakers in a box. Especially for bass, guitar is a lot more forgiving.
If you are really in a tight budget, I'd be looking into Peavey TX410 cabs. They're heavy. They're not pretty. But they work and they are cheap. I had one of them that cost me £70 in decent condition and served me well for a while until I could afford a more manageable solution. If weight is not an issue you can get a pair of those for not much money and by the hammer of Thor, you'll be heard and felt with a D800+ and those!
That too.
Powerful guitar amps, with lots of low end... a nice recipe for bass frequency mud cake.
One of the things I've had to do a lot in my playing life is showing guitarists where their bass control is, and back it off. They don't like it at first, hearing to their guitar alone. But once the band plays together, they're generally happy with the result as it's clearer and their guitars actually are heard better too.
Y'all are going to laugh... I think I have been over thinking it... Just reset my eq to the rock control settings from the manual...turned off the deep and high switches... and cranked the hpf back to around 11:00.... I think my problem may be fixed. I'll see next jam session... Hey... @agedhorse you probably should've just sent me back to the drawing board... lol I should have just listened to the suggestions from the guys that made the dang thing...? Preposterous!
Aha!
Bear in mind that what sounds good alone may be wrong with the band... but it sounds like you may be able to get it to work!
When you play with the band, at higher volume, don't be afraid to experiment with the HPF and the bass control.
I generally leave the deep switch off as it adds too much low end for my liking. I have the bright switch on permanently, and tone controls flat. I may add a bit of low mids or high mids sometimes... a bit. But I generally find that I only need small adjustments: having the ability to set the centre frequency means to me that it's more about finding the right frequency and adjust a little.
Where I play a lot is with the HPF and bass control. I found over time that sometimes turning the HPF up *AND* turning bass control up a bit gave me the right amount of tight low end with *punch*. It was not intuitive to me... I mean, by putting the HPF up I was cutting more and more low end, so why would I boost the bass too? Wouldn't it be undoing what I was doing? But it seems that the result is boosting the very low end in a very controlled manner which adds bottom end 'presence' without mud. I'm not very technical
other can explain why that works... but, just try it, experiment *with the band*... Play a bit and see what the controls do TOGETHER, not just each separately. I've owned the D800+ for about a year now and I'm still in love with this box. I can safely say it's the first amp I've owned where I never felt I was compromising anything. Of course, a lot of it is to do with having the right cabs for your goals... but you have a hell of an amp there, super versatile... If the cabs you have don't have anything majorly wrong with them (and reading further it looks like you were careful enough) I'm positive you'll find if not the tone you dream of, at least a tone that you can work with and be happy with.
Good luck!
That's right.
The difference among headphone tone, room tone, rehearsal tone and gig tone is quite a lot. If you play with musicians that don't know the difference, woe is you.
It can be an uphill battle to get band members to learn that FOH as a group is what matters.
...and finally, considering items 1 to 4 AND the two guitarists running full stacks w/ 300W tube amps:
5. A set of earmuffs.
ampeg will not lead down a bad path. ampeg 810 and a svt head.. and darkglass b7k pedal.. that will make you cut through like a hot knife thru butter
