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Ok...tired subject, but I need advice.

#81
My band sounds like Hell in the rehearsal studio, but stand 20 feet away and we sound awesome. Things aren't tuned and set to sound good to you, they're set to sound good to the audience... So long as you like the way that you sound alone...

Seems to me like your guitarists are set to play an arena, but I'm getting the impression that your band is not. Anytime you add much more in to the equation than is needed, you're asking for it. Metal bands are all about looking cool, but you have to sound good first... and then look cool later.

Just remember all of the Metal bands of the 80's... first album, BC Rich... then as soon as they became famous and hit the road, they had ESP's.

You came to the right place for help, but with home made cabs and guitarists that are cheating, we can probably solve this one without bringing in CSI...

I hope your EQ settings work... Thank God it's a great EQ, because you're asking it to perform a miracle!
 
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#82
dukey donkey said:
I'm really starting to lean on the eq settings being an issue...I think I simply haven't played with the head long enough to make the most of the interaction with the cab's... which I racked my brain over the t/s parameters and tried to mate them well...my 2x12 has a better high and upper mid response, and my 4x12 favors the low mids and lows... I'm going to experiment with putting the 2x12 on bottom too... Then again I could just be over thinking it and need to get back to square one...set everything to flat and tweak tweak tweak. My biggest mistake is probably not taking into consideration the unique frequency signatures of my cab's...
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Just a thought about eq; Mesas are very sensitive to eq adjustments, so go slow with those knobs or you could find yourself blowing past the tone you want. I have a Prodigy and a Walkabout Scout and have found the advice in the manuals to be true.
 
#83
The Nameless said:
Listening to all debates on amps and cabs don't matter (they don't, to a point) to everyone now requires HPFs and compression and all this gobbledegook. Gimme a break. If yer needin all that?
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lol. You can use whatever you want. No one is "required" to use anything. That said, my D-800, especially at 2 ohms, can make plenty of noise, and you can actually hear each note if you want to set it that way. Pretty sure I don't have the "wrong amp."
 
#84
dukey donkey said:
Y'all are going to laugh... I think I have been over thinking it... Just reset my eq to the rock control settings from the manual...turned off the deep and high switches... and cranked the hpf back to around 11:00.... I think my problem may be fixed. I'll see next jam session... Hey... @agedhorse you probably should've just sent me back to the drawing board... lol I should have just listened to the suggestions from the guys that made the dang thing...? Preposterous! :facepalm:
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Did that work?
 
#86
astack said:
So, back to the cabs, the Sica driver is an 8 ohm speaker. There's no way to get six 8 ohm speakers to come out to 4 ohms. Presumably, you wired the 412 to be 8 ohm (series / parallel) and the 212 to be 4 ohm (series) and when connected (in series), they'd be 2.67 ohms, which that Mesa can do, but most other class-d heads can't. Do check the polarity and wiring, as others have mentioned, if you haven't yet. If the wiring is off, the impedance could either be high and you're getting less power from the amp or too low and you're overworking the amp.

Even if you are happier with your sound after tweaking amp settings, I'd bet there's still a lot of improvement from sorting out your cabs.
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Sica?

Your math is way off.

IF the OP used the same drivers, in each cabinet, the 8 ohms for the 412 is no problem, with 2 sets of series speakers in parallel.

For the 212, again if he used the same drivers, the best possible configuration would be for the drivers to be wired in series resulting in a 16 ohm 210.

Then, when the 2 cabinets are then connected in parallel, the total impedance would be 5.33 ohms along with equal power handling per driver. I would strongly recommend that the OP verify that this is the wiring configuration that's actually in place.
 
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#87
agedhorse said:
Sica?

Your math is way off.

IF the OP used the same drivers, in each cabinet, the 8 ohms for the 412 is no problem, with 2 sets of series speakers in parallel.

For the 212, again if he used the same drivers, the best possible configuration would be for the drivers to be wired in series resulting in a 16 ohm 210.

Then, when the 2 cabinets are then connected in parallel, the total impedance would be 5.33 ohms along with equal power handling per driver. I would strongly recommend that the OP verify that this is the wiring configuration that's actually in place.
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Doh, I should know better. *Parallel* connection of 8 ohms and 4 would still be 2.67, yeah? Req = R1*R2/(R1+R2)

Correcting now...

Sentiment is still the same! ;)
 
#88
astack said:
Doh, I should know better. *Parallel* connection of 8 ohms and 4 would still be 2.67, yeah? Req = R1*R2/(R1+R2)

Correcting now...

Sentiment is still the same! ;)
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But the power balance between drivers would not be good.
 
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#91
Im not aware off any Krank amps that are 300 watts. The tube heads are 50 or 100 watts. The Rev which is a hydrid is 200 watts. One of my guitarist is using a 100 watt Krank Jr, The other uses a 1
Axe FX through a 1000 watt power amp. I'm using a GK700RBII through a 2X12 cab and its loud enough. The difference is my guitars are some what sane and only use 2X12 cabs. Its still stupid loud. My guess is your issue is the cabs them self. get a 810 and be done with it.
 
#92
Ric5 said:
The band I am currently playing with rehearses in a basement … there are 3 guitars/bass/drums … One of the guitars doubles on keyboards. The guitar amps are a sea of 4x12 cabs. The one guitar player who really cut through the mix was the guy playing through a little 1x12 Fender champ. So I am telling the guys that 1x12 or 2x12 combos would be a better fit for our band. But the OP plays in a metal band and metal guitarists love the sealed 4x12 cabs for the metal tone.

Also 4x12 cabs are great for bass … they are not as efficient in the low end but the low mids they produce are great for bass
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RE: 4-12 cabs for guitars

I D I O T S. I’m of an opinion somewhere on this planet somebody manufactures a 1-12 sealed enclosure with a very efficient speaker that would do nicely paired with no more than a 25 watt tube amp and would be suitable for Metal. Or better yet, a good pedal board, Run direct into the board.

As for 12s for bass.... I’m all for it. Used them back in the 70s while everybody else was using 15s and 18s. For the music I play today however, I’m liking my 10s a whole lot.
 
#93
dbsfgyd1 said:
RE: 4-12 cabs for guitars

I D I O T S. I’m of an opinion somewhere on this planet somebody manufactures a 1-12 sealed enclosure with a very efficient speaker that would do nicely paired with no more than a 25 watt tube amp and would be suitable for Metal. Or better yet, a good pedal board, Run direct into the board.

As for 12s for bass.... I’m all for it. Used them back in the 70s while everybody else was using 15s and 18s. For the music I play today however, I’m liking my 10s a whole lot.
Click to expand...


After years of playing metal with guitar players using half stacks or full stack and myself running 810s or 412s I can tell you I really enjoy this band were everyone is running a 212. Even though it still can be loud, at least theres no volume wars.
 
#95
astack said:
So, back to the cabs, the Sica driver is an 8 ohm speaker. There's no way to get six 8 ohm speakers to come out to 4 ohms. Presumably, you wired the 412 to be 8 ohm (series / parallel) and the 212 to be 4 ohm ([del]series[/del] parallel) and when connected (in [del]series[/del] parallel), they'd be 2.67 ohms, which that Mesa can do, but most other class-d heads can't. Do check the polarity and wiring, as others have mentioned, if you haven't yet. If the wiring is off, the impedance could either be high and you're getting less power from the amp or too low and you're overworking the amp.

Even if you are happier with your sound after tweaking amp settings, I'd bet there's still a lot of improvement from sorting out your cabs.

*Edited connections
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The 4x12 is using the eminence drivers wired to 8 ohms...(according to the schematic I pulled up online) its possible to wire 4 8ohm speakers to 8 ohms... And the sicas (4ohm) are in the 2x12 wired (according to another schematic) to 8 ohms... maybe my wiring is wonky?
 
#96
Like I did say, the volume is not an issue...I can hear myself fine... just no oomph...ahem.......balls, as it were. I've adjusted my eq, but haven't been able to run my full rig with the new settings... although I can tell you that the 2x12 is putting out more girth than it was... I just like having some chest vibrations happening in the front 2 rows...
 
#97
dukey donkey said:
The 4x12 is using the eminence drivers wired to 8 ohms...(according to the schematic I pulled up online) its possible to wire 4 8ohm speakers to 8 ohms... And the sicas (4ohm) are in the 2x12 wired (according to another schematic) to 8 ohms... maybe my wiring is wonky?
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Measure with an ohm meter (maybe you posted that you did earlier...). You get about 3/4 the ohms with an ohm meter. So 6 = 8 and 3 = 4, or so. Just post what you get if it's too far off from that.
 
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#99
AdamR said:
Im not aware off any Krank amps that are 300 watts. The tube heads are 50 or 100 watts. The Rev which is a hydrid is 200 watts. One of my guitarist is using a 100 watt Krank Jr, The other uses a 1
Axe FX through a 1000 watt power amp. I'm using a GK700RBII through a 2X12 cab and its loud enough. The difference is my guitars are some what sane and only use 2X12 cabs. Its still stupid loud. My guess is your issue is the cabs them self. get a 810 and be done with it.
Click to expand...
Well they're deafeningly loud lol I assumed they are... They're both gen 1 rev 1's...not so sure about the hybrid thing...more tubes inside than you can shake a stick at
 
#100
WardEarth said:
If you end up still wondering if your speakers are the weakness of your rig, you should maybe take your amp and try some other cabinets out. Have you tried various basses as well? I'd say the mesa is a sure thing, and its probably your settings or speakers.
And what about the gain? Not sure thats been talked about.
Click to expand...
Going to try some different cab's this weekend...a 2x15 and an 8x10...
 
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