Old school Power amplifier for bass

[CatSquare]

Here's your amp..... Here's your cooling systems!View attachment 717914 View attachment 717911 View attachment 717908 View attachment 717907

Submerge it in oil!

 

[Kirk Bryant]

Well oil be damned!

 

[xk49w]

I use a Hafler XL600 in the home rig, but it has a fan. I never felt a need to slap a high-pass on it at any volume.

I speak from experience. The 9505's low frequency response and current delivery capability can destroy woofers, though in-line speaker fuses can provide some protection.

 

[agedhorse]

I don't have the energy to read this whole thread. In the event this was not mentioned, the Stewart PR and PA 1000 meets your requests. These are great, studio quality, amps. [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Misses the criteria on 2 counts... it uses an SMPS, and is class H

I like my Hartke LH1000 (alot). It's class A and has a quiet fan. 1100 watts bridged into 4 ohms. 32 Lbs

It certainly isn't class A, though it is class AB

If you ever check out a CA9 you will know right away why they are the best power amp ever made for bass guitar. Crest on the CA9 according to people in the know say that Crest did something a little different in the design of the feedback loop if memory serve's me correct to enhance bass response, anyhow whatever it was it worked.

There are things that an amp designer can do to alter the response of an amp (either intentionally or unintentionally) into a reactive load. These are generally done to improve perceived performance at low frequency, though at a sacrifice to accuracy. (there is no free lunch)

Similar things can be done with every topology, and even perceived limitations can be exploited for a beneficial result if you understand how the technology (and what it controls) really works.

Otherwise, the most common differences in the perceived sound of (quality level) power amps are generally how they handle the transition into and out of overload, the character of the artifacts generated, and particular voicing decisions that the designer made (under reactive load conditions). Generally, the differences are really small unless the voicing decisions were significant.

 

[P A U L]

I picked me up a couple Carvin 1000 watt amps for $100/ea on CL the other day. I'm figuring on running my Ampeg SVP-Pro pre-amp into one & into a couple SWR Goliath cab's I have. They have fans though. I'm not sure why that's a criteria. They are quiet as can be...

You can find them (or similar versions) pretty regularly, if you look around...

 

[Joebone]

And if you need that much power, why do you care about a fan? Unless you plan on using it in a church...

Or in a recording situation...

 

[svtb15]

Im glad hat you called me Mr... yeah.. well ya know.... Before you start the name calling by using the term Big Shot.. .. you might want to back it up some and RE READ THE THREAD.. Seamonkey is the person that created the change in the thread with "Producers better start mixing to sound better with Class-D - it's what people are going to listen on. " I doubt he has experience with "Producers" if so it is very limited.. ... ...Much less have him or yourself working a NEVE, API, or SSL that i asked him about..And that is OK..nothing wrong with that. You have your line of work and I have mine..
I do this on a weekly and daily basis, He should be open minded , if not its not very helpful to anyone..

You limit yourselves and pat each other on the back without having enough real world experience to actually know the difference. and this why i get name called by you? I actually do this for a living without another day job to whittle time away.. .. Bass playing and producing is my day job. and i am blessed to work with some of the top dogs in the industry from time to time. .
So That's why you name call me a Big Shot. Its only from your lesser experience that you see my experience so intimidating to you.

Hark at you Mr Big Shot .... I'm sure the title of this thread is 'amplifier for bass' not 'power amplification for mastering' or 'how flats my desk'

Back on Topic..... OP , Give up class prejudice and get yourself a Crown XLS1500.

 

[svtb15]

From what i believe, your Hartke is is a class A/B power section with a Class A one 12ax7 preamp..
It would be a mighty different amp if it were 1100 watts and class A... Its a class AB. or H but not A

I like my Hartke LH1000 (alot). It's class A and has a quiet fan. 1100 watts bridged into 4 ohms. 32 Lbs

 

[svtb15]

Those amps actually sound pretty good.. IMO..
I had the bigger brother Carvin DCM1500 for a few years.. .The older 3 rack space one.. I used it on my bass rig then went Class D.. right now im back on my rack rig for a couple weeks.. Crown MA1200 and API 550 and 512

I was running and old Bryston amp in my small home studio and it has NO FANS... and I think it sounded fantastic.. Its not lightweight....

I picked me up a couple Carvin 1000 watt amps for $100/ea on CL the other day. I'm figuring on running my Ampeg SVP-Pro pre-amp into one & into a couple SWR Goliath cab's I have. They have fans though. I'm not sure why that's a criteria. They are quiet as can be...

You can find them (or similar versions) pretty regularly, if you look around...

 

[Bassmec]

Those amps actually sound pretty good.. IMO..
I had the bigger brother Carvin DCM1500 for a few years.. .The older 3 rack space one.. I used it on my bass rig then went Class D.. right now im back on my rack rig for a couple weeks.. Crown MA1200 and API 550 and 512

I was running and old Bryston amp in my small home studio and it has NO FANS... and I think it sounded fantastic.. Its not lightweight....

Yes I was thinking a Bryston 4b is apart from the weight, exactly what the OP is after.

 

[tedsalt]

From what i believe, your Hartke is is a class A/B power section with a Class A one 12ax7 preamp..
It would be a mighty different amp if it were 1100 watts and class A... Its a class AB. or H but not A

Sorry guys, I guess you're correct. The manual just mentioned the preamp I guess.

 

[sratas]

Thats Bravo Siera.
Ill put my old Crown MA1200 or my old Crown PSA2 against any Class D amp with the Same power rating. And you will feel the difference immediately..
I've done it at least 5 times over the a few years with TWO grammy award winning engineers/ producers. And at least 4 FOH engineers that work with Claire Bros, and ex Showco, plus a bud that plays keys with pink floyd and with some of the biggest names in the current and past top dog music world.
I trust their ears and my own over any internet forum opinions..
I was just in studio yesterday with grammy winning player Redd Volkaert doing tracks for his new record.. We were talking about this exact subject..
Im not going to go back and forth in this forum on this subject. It just gets too nasty. So this will be my only post...
Engineers pushing their numbers and specs etc etc. and never giving a clear answer..But backing up their opinions with long winded mumbo jumbo.. It doesn't mean squat . But it makes for good internet forum fodder..

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh......it seems that, on tb, there are a few people with my very same opinions, and you are one of those....

Class D is the new standard these days, and for some reasons, but please do not consider tone and feel as being one of those, ok?

 

[Joelc73]

Another pricey but great option is the Glock BAC. It would be hard to find a better sounding amp -- and it has no fan. Or if it must be a dedicated power amp you could get the Glock Bugatti.

 

[svtb15]

So true.. Well, yeah ,,, I tell this to the naysayers though... Class D has come a LONG way... and a Long way since i got my 900 watt Class D amps a few years ago..
These is nothing wrong with them...
That said I have never been able to get either one of my two Class D consumer grade bass amps to get anywhere close to putting out the VOL of my PSA2 Crown amp.. My two Class D amps have an undefeatable LIMITER by the manufacturer, and seems to cut the legs off the amp compared to the crown.. .. The old Crown not even breaking a sweat and not close to LIMITING is fuller, louder, punchier.. I suspect my Class D's are really about 350 to 400 watts and not 900.. At least not a 900 watts that i am familiar with by using pro audio amps in my bass rig for a better portion of 40 years..

However I have a fly date today and tomorrow. of which i take my Class D amp with me . Just in case...

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh......it seems that, on tb, there are a few people with my very same opinions, and you are one of those....

Class D is the new standard these days, and for some reasons, but please do not consider tone and feel as being one of those, ok?

 

[svtb15]

In my opinion.. That is a very good sounding preamp. Its simple and easy to use. Very much like the old Alembic f2b... Which is similar to the fender. But the alembic has a tighter bottom than the fender pre version and a more open top end.. . I think the hartke is more similar to the F2B in that way.. very good sounding

Sorry guys, I guess you're correct. The manual just mentioned the preamp I guess.

 

[BurningSkies]

So true.. Well, yeah ,,, I tell this to the naysayers though... Class D has come a LONG way... and a Long way since i got my 900 watt Class D amps a few years ago..
These is nothing wrong with them...
That said I have never been able to get either one of my two Class D consumer grade bass amps to get anywhere close to putting out the VOL of my PSA2 Crown amp.. My two Class D amps have an undefeatable LIMITER by the manufacturer, and seems to cut the legs off the amp compared to the crown.. .. The old Crown not even breaking a sweat and not close to LIMITING is fuller, louder, punchier.. I suspect my Class D's are really about 350 to 400 watts and not 900.. At least not a 900 watts that i am familiar with by using pro audio amps in my bass rig for a better portion of 40 years..

However I have a fly date today and tomorrow. of which i take my Class D amp with me . Just in case...

I think this sort of nails it. You were part of the discussion about how amps are rated these days vs. some of the older days...also I feel like when it comes to sound reinforcement gear the standard of rating and documentation was also once expected to be of a higher level. I also feel as the past 5 years or so have unfolded in amp design as they've become the 'standard' rather than the exception that the designs are getting better. The engineers will openly admit that there's more expertise and more detailed knowledge in the proper implementation of class D/SMPS technology...It's sort of like how CD's sounded pretty assy when they came out, but slowly people have gotten their heads around the technology to make them sound way better.

I fully believe that my "3000w" Class D power amp has all the 'beef' that an 'old school' amp of lesser wattage has. Half because it's rated at 3000w with a special voltage source (can't get that from standard wall outlet!) at a 'ms burst rate'. I knew that going in and knew it would perform more like a 900-1500w amp of ye olde dayes. The good news is that I can run it as loud or louder than anyone (that's an unqualified anyone, given how loud it truly is) and not get that compression or low end limiting. The only time I've experienced the amp hitting its 'safety zone' has been in rooms with decidedly brown power. So yeah, I don't care if someone calls it a '3000w amp' or a '900w amp' .

In short, most of it is a 'numbers game' not a amp-class game. Even in this thread owners of certain amps can't tell if their stuff is AB, H, D or otherwise.

 

[JackANSI]

I speak from experience. The 9505's low frequency response and current delivery capability can destroy woofers, though in-line speaker fuses can provide some protection.

Those fuses are only there to stop a complete meltdown or fire IMHO.

Any amp can destroy a speaker if you: A. Try. or B. Don't know what you're doing

I guess a high pass could save someone the trouble. I've tried a couple and a few amps I've owned had one built in, seemed useless for me.

 

[JackANSI]

I think this sort of nails it. You were part of the discussion about how amps are rated these days vs. some of the older days...also I feel like when it comes to sound reinforcement gear the standard of rating and documentation was also once expected to be of a higher level. I also feel as the past 5 years or so have unfolded in amp design as they've become the 'standard' rather than the exception that the designs are getting better. The engineers will openly admit that there's more expertise and more detailed knowledge in the proper implementation of class D/SMPS technology...It's sort of like how CD's sounded pretty assy when they came out, but slowly people have gotten their heads around the technology to make them sound way better.

I fully believe that my "3000w" Class D power amp has all the 'beef' that an 'old school' amp of lesser wattage has. Half because it's rated at 3000w with a special voltage source (can't get that from standard wall outlet!) at a 'ms burst rate'. I knew that going in and knew it would perform more like a 900-1500w amp of ye olde dayes. The good news is that I can run it as loud or louder than anyone (that's an unqualified anyone, given how loud it truly is) and not get that compression or low end limiting. The only time I've experienced the amp hitting its 'safety zone' has been in rooms with decidedly brown power. So yeah, I don't care if someone calls it a '3000w amp' or a '900w amp' .

In short, most of it is a 'numbers game' not a amp-class game. Even in this thread owners of certain amps can't tell if their stuff is AB, H, D or otherwise.

In a properly run (i.e. not impromptu) blind A/B or A/B/X test I doubt many could tell the difference between a few nice class D and anything else. I'd even bet the more vocal someone is about being able to tell, the less accurate their guesses will be.

 

[BurningSkies]

In a properly run (i.e. not impromptu) blind A/B or A/B/X test I doubt many could tell the difference between a few nice class D and anything else. I'd even bet the more vocal someone is about being able to tell, the less accurate their guesses will be.

Good ears exist in all walks of life. I don't credit mine after playing music for 3+ decades, often louder than I should have been, as the be all and end all. But I'm also leery of the 'I'm a pro therefore my ears are best' argument...because people become pro for all sorts of reasons that aren't audiologically based. I've gotten into that fight with plenty of people over the years. Often our minds lead our ears just as much as our ears leading our minds.

 

[svtb15]

We all perceive sound and FEEL differently... I always stress the FEEL part of my bass rig. .Because bass is more than just hearing...
What i have learned.... there is NO ONE way. There is no right way to play bass or produce.. Its not Numbers unless you are reading notation .. Then it becomes MATH..
I always work on being creative and different yet fit the song and the genre, I've been blessed and able to do records that range from Pop to Nashville, Texas Swing to guitar virtuosos Metal guys.. ... i try to Fit in but also add my own personality..
Some tools (amps or pre's) allow us to do that better than others. . maybe not better but certainly different