1. Please take 30 seconds to register your free account to remove most ads, post topics, make friends, earn reward points at our store, and more!  
     
    TalkBass.com has been uniting the low end since 1998.  Join us! :)

Original cap vs Paper in oil (headphone on please)

Discussion in 'Pickups & Electronics [BG]' started by Arrow, Oct 24, 2017.


  1. Arrow

    Arrow

    Sep 10, 2013
    The Netherlands
    Here's a quick demo of the difference between the 2 caps with my 51ri Precision MIJ:

     
  2. ddnidd1

    ddnidd1 Supporting Member

    What value are the capacitors?
     
  3. Axstar

    Axstar

    Jul 8, 2016
    East of Eden.
    On the first pass the true meaning and pathos of the song was lost in a maelstrom of poor bass tone. When you swapped over to the Oil and Vinegar cap then the whole song came alive, and I was transported to another realm. I was there with those cowboys, gathered round the campfire after a hard day's slog across the wilderness. I was right there farting and sipping Bud Lite with old blue-beard and the other lads.

    Never discount the impact a $75 component can have on the tone of a bass.

    And I'm really glad I dug out my £5 Skull Candy bud headphones, because you really need a high quality pair of cans to hear the difference between two capacitors, as captured by the in-built microphone of a video camera.
     
  4. Arrow

    Arrow

    Sep 10, 2013
    The Netherlands
    The original, I don't know. It's the green one:

    150887549820587856483.
     
  5. Arrow

    Arrow

    Sep 10, 2013
    The Netherlands
    The Paper in oil is 0.047
     
  6. Axstar

    Axstar

    Jul 8, 2016
    East of Eden.
    That green one looks like a bug or something. Yuck.

    Can I take my headphones off yet?
     
  7. 40Hz

    40Hz Supporting Member

    It's the difference in sound between your two caps.

    Not the difference sound between the composition of two caps.
     
  8. The reason it sounds different is because the amount of capacitance in the circuit changed, not because the new one is paper-in-oil.
    Check the capacitance with a LCR meter & you will find they are not the same value.
     
    MattZilla, Arrow, FenderB and 9 others like this.
  9. To say that there is any difference in tone between capacitors of the same value, in this application, is to argue with some very well known and elementary physics.

    Any time a difference can be heard between identically rated capacitors (in this application, but not necessarily others), it is usually explained by one of the following:

    1. The capacitors had a different actual capacitance due to variation in manufacturing tolerance, and/or drift due to leakage/drying out over time.

    2. Psychological effects of hearing what you want to hear.
     
    Grumry, tlite, Mugre and 10 others like this.
  10. BassLife77

    BassLife77

    Nov 13, 2009
    San Diego
    I bought a crapload of Russian PIO's when they were still 35 cents and didn't hear any difference in sound quality with other metal film caps
     
    Grumry likes this.
  11. GentProvocateur

    GentProvocateur Supporting Member

    So as you can tell this is a well-worn discussion on TB and other forums. Thanks for recording/filming this, thinking of uploading it here, and starting a thread. More than a lot of people do
     
  12. DavC

    DavC Supporting Member

    May 17, 2005
    Tallmadge , Ohio
    the Orange ones taste better .. !
     
  13. BassUrges

    BassUrges

    Mar 14, 2016
    Denver
    The green cap is .1uF

    I know this because it says “104”. That is 10 x 10^4 pF.

    Tolerance code “J” is +/-5%

    Next “5” is max voltage

    “O” is the temperature range.
     
  14. Coolhandjjl

    Coolhandjjl Supporting Member

    Oct 13, 2010
    Appleton
    Yup. The 51RI MIJ comes with a .1 cap. I thought there was also a resistor in the circuit.

    Was the tone dialed down at all?
     
    Pbassmanca likes this.
  15. Pbassmanca

    Pbassmanca In the pocket n' thumpy. So woody, so greasy...

    I'll second that! :cool:
     
    Loring likes this.
  16. 74hc

    74hc

    Nov 19, 2015
    California
    Looks to me that it's a 50V mylar capacitor, not a 5V one.
     
  17. cnltb

    cnltb

    May 28, 2005
    Thank you!
     
    bolophonic and Axstar like this.
  18. 74hc

    74hc

    Nov 19, 2015
    California
    If it's a passive bass, all of the signal passing through the capacitor is going to ground, not the amp's tone circuit. So, the differences is the value of the capacitor, and the tolerance in it's operating range.

    It's not the mylar vs paper/oil composition. We also need to see a picture of the paper/oil capacitor as many today get passed off as such, but are foil based.
     
    Pbassmanca and Killed_by_Death like this.
  19. petrus61

    petrus61 Supporting Member

    I preferred a .047 when I had a 51RI. OP, you nearly cut the capacitance in half with the cap swap, hence the sonic difference.
     
  20. Whil57

    Whil57

    Aug 7, 2013
    Long Island
    I liked number two better, cut through more. I call those little square ones film caps, although they might not be. But a cap is a fast way to mod, and i keep a huge collection. I mostly end up with the orange, after swapping a bunch around, but occasionally the paper or film might be the last cap standing.
     
    Arrow likes this.

Share This Page