Double Bass Palatino Megathread part I

[JazzDude]

I switch regularly between my DB and the Palantino, and I would recommend against using a Palatino for this purpose. It hard to overstate the differences between this EUB and a real DB.

The string spacing is much narrower, and the bridge shape is wrong for bowing. I've reworked mine so it's close, but it was a pain.

Additionally, it's skinny body feels completely different from the real thing. It's a real trick to find a workable bowing position because the only part to lean on is a piece of half-inch metal tubing. You can get a cymbal stand to fix the position, but then it doesn't move with you like a real bass. In any case my arms and other body parts are in very different positions on the two basses.

To a lesser degree, the shorter scale requires some adjustment, but enough to make learning intonation harder.

My 13-year-old daughter plays double bass in the school orchestra, and electric at home. She has to ride the school bus home, and hasn't been able to bring the school's instrument home since she started playing a couple years ago. She's shown enough dedication and talent that I'm leaning toward buying her an upright for practice at home.

Is anyone playing the electric Palatino with a bow? I'm wondering if it might be a good alternative to a student-grade acoustic bass in the same price range, considering the versatility factor. (A more spendy instrument isn't an option right now.) What I'm reading here tends to suggest that it can be a pretty serviceable instrument with some tweaking (I love tweaking!); but I don't want it if it won't serve the purpose of home practice for orchestra. She already has a Godin fretted and higher-end Ibanez fretless (both 4's), so if it's basically another fretless electric bass, there's no real point. TIA for any insight.

(Sorry if this has been covered; after searching through a few pages of this thread and not finding anything, I decided to go ahead and post.)

 

[BassyBill]

I just ordered one of these on ebay and it's winging it's way across the Atlantic to me as I write. Thanks for all the info, guys, interesting reading. I'll be sure to get back to you with my impressions on this bass once it arrives.

Well, I was expecting to get this today, but UPS managed to disappoint in time honoured style. If you're interested in how they sank to their nadir in my opinion...

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=296234

 

[BassyBill]

Well, I got this baby yesterday, first time I've spent any time on upright since leaving school and playing exclusively BG for the last 29 years.

Overall, I have to say I'm VERY pleased with this bass. It's much more like an upright and less like a glorified fretless BG than I expected. I just fitted the bridge and lowered the action about as far as it would go and it suited me pretty much fine like this. It feels like a proper acoustic bass (as I remember), and the sound is much closer to a DB than it is to my fretless Fender Jazz. I'll try and record a few clips over the break and post them here.

Pros -

Really nice build quality for the price, mine seems nicely put together and finished.
Sound has a pleasing thump to it, strings seem okay to a noob like me, but I've ordered some Piastro Obligatos to try out and see just how much difference they make. I may also try the rubber under the pickup and bridge mod out of curiosity.
Pickup seems pretty good, reproduces the intrinsic tone of the bass pretty well.
Very good value for the money.

Cons -

Onboard pre amp is VERY hissy (but not any hum that I've noticed). This just has to be sorted for me, I can't stand it! Pharaoh, you have a PM...
Feeds back easily with the tailpiece ringing as several people have described. Cured this for now with an old teeshirt stuffed behind it, will be upgrading to a nice piece of rolled felt at some stage.

Whilst testing the bass in my lounge to see if I'd cured the feedback I cranked the amp a little and sent two dinner plates crashing to the floor from the sink draining board in my kitchen. That tells you what the low end on this bass can do!

 

[KOOLHAND]

I have changed strings to D'Addario Helicore light and put some bicycle tube rubber between the bridge and the pickup. The sound has got much better. Passing through a preamp it can be handled quite nicely. The only problem is that between c, b and bflat there is some restricted resonance altering the tone and making it undefined.

Does anybody have an idea what to do?

Thank you very much.

Roberto

Hi Roberto, and All the Palatino (PAL) Buddies,

Roberto, before I try to come up with some suggestions for you, I need to firstly apologize to Nohandles and Rodl2005!!!
My last post was on the 20/7/06 and had just returned form a trip overseas of the Pacific Islands. By the next day my wife had booked flights to travel intra-state to visit family and friends, and within the next two weeks she had us booked on a two months cruise on the Marco Polo, cruising the Mediterranean. You see, we have only had three holidays together in our thirty years of marriage, as I travelled a lot for my work and when I was home on weekends I'd be out playing in bands. So now she reckons it's her time!!!

I never got the chance to thank Nohandles and Rodl2005 for the "Welcome Back" message they sent way back then, so guys.......Thank You!!!!!!!

I had alot of time to think what other improvements I could make on the Palatino Bass, as I was still having some issues with it, in particular the sustain of the notes were somewhat short. My thinking was something else is resonating against the strings vibration. I remembered before I left that I had given the Bass a few fair thumps on the body with the ball of my hand down near the tail piece. With my ear on the body of the Bass I could hear a fair amount of rattling within. As I had already put rubber under the rightangle piece of the tail that attaches to the instrument, it had to be something else!

Now before I go any further, please don't think I have a fetish for rubber, I DON'T!!!!
But if the shockabsobers on our cars didn't have rubber sleeves, it would be a noisy ride, Right?

So when I got back from overseas, I took off the two round metal holding brackets that holds and adjusts the height post, and cut some round rubber matting and placed them between the brackets and the body and rescrewed them back tightly.

I am now getting over 20 seconds sustain on each string with the sound starting to roll off at about 17 seconds but is still there after 20. It has also softend the rattle to almost nothing.

Roberto, I'am hoping that the restricted resonance you mentioned may have something to do with what I have tried to eliminate as each instrument has its own idiosyncrasies, not unfamiliar with fretless bass guitars sometimes having dead notes in different parts of the neck, and the acoustic style bass has a much longer and larger neck area for things to go wrong.

I can't impress enough but you must regularly, if not at the start of each bracket,then at least at the start of every gig, ADJUST THE BRIDGE!!!!!! it may just be a fraction back or forward but I reckon the bridge will have moved that fraction enough to give you less volume from the strings by the end of the gig. Just experiment, you may find yours never moves, but temperatures, transit and other movement mayjust do it.

Another mod I have done and it was mainly for comfort and to stop the Bass from slipping around when playing,....and yes guys....it's rubber to the rescue AGAIN.

I have used this soft black rubber tubing, it is a porous foam on the inside but has a smooth skin on the outerside. It is about an Inch in diameter with a 1/4" holow centre. It is commonly used to go around the airconditioning metal pipes in the engine bay of your car. This I have used to cover the full length of the large ushape metal extention tube that fits on the side of the bass the enlarges the body shape. Man this Bass is Sooooo comfortable to play now and it doesn't slip around anymore!!!! Please TRY IT. You'll say like I did, "What wonder would be more wonderful, wouldn't one!!! and wonder why you didn't do it earlier
How I came by it, I had just puchased an Epiphone-Joe Pass- Jazz Guitar and the only Case available was either too thin or one size too deep, which I ended up getting, but the guitar was sitting at too much of an angle. So I found this rubber tubing, nice and soft so it would give if pressure was placed on it. Bought a metre (3 feet), used half in the bottom of the case, and what to do with the rest?

Okay everyone, so glad to be back and it great to know this thread started by "Nohandles" near Three years ago next April, is still flourishing with great assistance for those in need, which we all are at some stage, and there has never been a bad word between anyone in comparison to some forums. Goes to prove we are all genuinely interested in this little Volkswagen of Basses.

Happy and safe Christmas to you all and your families and have a great New Year!

Luke.

 

[DaBassman]

The bridge on my bass came with both of the "adjustable feet" slightly beveled......so if you face it one way it leans towards the neck and if you face it the other way it tilts towards the endpiece......To get it perpendicular, I have to tip it so the the feet do not make a flush contact with the pickup.....
I have contacted Palatino about it but never get a response.
Anyone have a suggestion or an idea where I can get a proper fitting bridge?
Thanks and Merry Christmas to all!

 

[KOOLHAND]

The bridge on my bass came with both of the "adjustable feet" slightly beveled......so if you face it one way it leans towards the neck and if you face it the other way it tilts towards the endpiece......To get it perpendicular, I have to tip it so the the feet do not make a flush contact with the pickup.....
I have contacted Palatino about it but never get a response.
Anyone have a suggestion or an idea where I can get a proper fitting bridge?
Thanks and Merry Christmas to all!

Hi DaBassman,

My understanding of beveled is that it is slightly V shaped or do you mean that one leading edge is thinner than the other.

Most of the acoustic players in my area seem to favour a slight lean of the bridge towards the tail piece, maybe to counteract the forward movement when tightening the strings, and that's the way I have mine on the Palatino.

However if the base of the bridge is V shaped, then I would get intouch with the retailer who sold it to you, and ask them why it was sent to you that way as they would have done it at the store when they set it up before selling it. I doubt it would have been made like that in the factory as it shold be Flat at the base of each foot.

As this is not an acoustic bass, where the bridge can be move wholly forward or backwards to get the intonation set exact, we are stuck with it sitting in a wooden frame. I found that if any side of the bridge feet touches the frame, it thins the sound quality, so ensure that it is at least the thickness of a fingernail away from touching any side of the frame the bridge sits in.

It's 3.30am where I am so I better get to bed!

Hope you can solve the problem.

Luke

 

[DaBassman]

Thanks
It's not a V shape. If you set it on a table top, it would tilt to one side.....I'll try setting it to tilt a little towards the endpiece!
Sleep well!

 

[robert bossart]

Hi Roberto, and All the Palatino (PAL) Buddies,

Roberto, before I try to come up with some suggestions for you, I need to firstly apologize to Nohandles and Rodl2005!!!
My last post was on the 20/7/06 and had just returned form a trip overseas of the Pacific Islands. By the next day my wife had booked flights to travel intra-state to visit family and friends, and within the next two weeks she had us booked on a two months cruise on the Marco Polo, cruising the Mediterranean. You see, we have only had three holidays together in our thirty years of marriage, as I travelled a lot for my work and when I was home on weekends I'd be out playing in bands. So now she reckons it's her time!!!

I never got the chance to thank Nohandles and Rodl2005 for the "Welcome Back" message they sent way back then, so guys.......Thank You!!!!!!!

I had alot of time to think what other improvements I could make on the Palatino Bass, as I was still having some issues with it, in particular the sustain of the notes were somewhat short. My thinking was something else is resonating against the strings vibration. I remembered before I left that I had given the Bass a few fair thumps on the body with the ball of my hand down near the tail piece. With my ear on the body of the Bass I could hear a fair amount of rattling within. As I had already put rubber under the rightangle piece of the tail that attaches to the instrument, it had to be something else!

Now before I go any further, please don't think I have a fetish for rubber, I DON'T!!!!
But if the shockabsobers on our cars didn't have rubber sleeves, it would be a noisy ride, Right?

So when I got back from overseas, I took off the two round metal holding brackets that holds and adjusts the height post, and cut some round rubber matting and placed them between the brackets and the body and rescrewed them back tightly.

I am now getting over 20 seconds sustain on each string with the sound starting to roll off at about 17 seconds but is still there after 20. It has also softend the rattle to almost nothing.

Roberto, I'am hoping that the restricted resonance you mentioned may have something to do with what I have tried to eliminate as each instrument has its own idiosyncrasies, not unfamiliar with fretless bass guitars sometimes having dead notes in different parts of the neck, and the acoustic style bass has a much longer and larger neck area for things to go wrong.

I can't impress enough but you must regularly, if not at the start of each bracket,then at least at the start of every gig, ADJUST THE BRIDGE!!!!!! it may just be a fraction back or forward but I reckon the bridge will have moved that fraction enough to give you less volume from the strings by the end of the gig. Just experiment, you may find yours never moves, but temperatures, transit and other movement mayjust do it.

Another mod I have done and it was mainly for comfort and to stop the Bass from slipping around when playing,....and yes guys....it's rubber to the rescue AGAIN.

I have used this soft black rubber tubing, it is a porous foam on the inside but has a smooth skin on the outerside. It is about an Inch in diameter with a 1/4" holow centre. It is commonly used to go around the airconditioning metal pipes in the engine bay of your car. This I have used to cover the full length of the large ushape metal extention tube that fits on the side of the bass the enlarges the body shape. Man this Bass is Sooooo comfortable to play now and it doesn't slip around anymore!!!! Please TRY IT. You'll say like I did, "What wonder would be more wonderful, wouldn't one!!! and wonder why you didn't do it earlier
How I came by it, I had just puchased an Epiphone-Joe Pass- Jazz Guitar and the only Case available was either too thin or one size too deep, which I ended up getting, but the guitar was sitting at too much of an angle. So I found this rubber tubing, nice and soft so it would give if pressure was placed on it. Bought a metre (3 feet), used half in the bottom of the case, and what to do with the rest?

Okay everyone, so glad to be back and it great to know this thread started by "Nohandles" near Three years ago next April, is still flourishing with great assistance for those in need, which we all are at some stage, and there has never been a bad word between anyone in comparison to some forums. Goes to prove we are all genuinely interested in this little Volkswagen of Basses.

Happy and safe Christmas to you all and your families and have a great New Year!

Luke.

Dear Koolhand, dear MrWalker

Thank you for your most important help.
I can only underline the importance of the bridge position: after tilting it some idea back and forward several times I found out that the volume and the sound quality depends greatly on that position. The wolf tone is away in the same way.
Last week I took my palatino to a rehearsel. After a short smile of the colleagues about the new animal, they quickly changed their attitude, acknoledging the tone quality. I myself was astonished about the precision of the tone. Perhaps this is due also to d'addarios strings?

I have also changed the shape of the metal tube. By bending it about 30° towards the back of the bass right near the attachment points, the body of a DB is better simulated. It is not as slim as the palatino! Attention to use a small instrument for bending tubes, same as plumbers use. The rubber tube will reinforce this effect and I will use it. Thank you for the idea.

I wish you all the best for a merry christmas and a happy new year.

Roberto

 

[any30]

Hi everybody,
My Palatino was delivered before Christmas. I could hardly believe it, but there was a 6-7" long hump in the fingerboard, about 1/10" high, just around the octave. The strings either rattled or didn't produce any sound at all around the spot. As it was the only Palatino in the country changing it seemed beyond hope, sending it back for fixing would have taken several weeks (and additional postal costs), so I fixed it myself with the help of some sandpaper and a long ruler. Furthermore, I found the pre-amp too noisy, compared to my jazz bass. My nephew solved the problem, making a new one (pre-amp, not jazz bass . Costs: 3$!!!.
And never trust in the shoulder straps! Replace plastic parts with metal ones or throw them away!

 

[Nohandles]

Since I have been playing with bigger and bigger anps I notices a buzz coming through. I wraped some 1/4 inch thick felt through the tail stock and it's completely quite now. I never notices it on the smaller amps but 120 and above really made it dominate. Thanks to this link it was easy to isolate the problem quickly.

 

[DaBassman]

I just started getting a nasty buzz when I play a G on the D string....it lamosy sounds like it's coming from=inside the fingerboard ......the "buzzing spot" seems to move around a bit too.....
On the bright side, Palatino just sent me a complete new bridge after I told them the "feet" on mine were cut a such an angle that the if I set it flush against the pickup, it tilted at a pretty sharp angle!

 

[Krusty2]

I just got my VE-500 and it's pretty cool! This is my first upright so I'm struggling a bit with the high string action. I've got the bridge on the lowest setting but it's still too high. Rather than shave the wood-- which I'm not qualified to do-- I'm thinking of cutting down the metal adjuster posts. Are there any reasons I shouldn't do this?

Also, there have been a lot of posts that the stock bridge is lame. Should I consider replacing it altogether? If so, where do I get a replacement for it?

Many thanks. Great forum!

 

[Nohandles]

I just got my VE-500 and it's pretty cool! This is my first upright so I'm struggling a bit with the high string action. I've got the bridge on the lowest setting but it's still too high. Rather than shave the wood-- which I'm not qualified to do-- I'm thinking of cutting down the metal adjuster posts. Are there any reasons I shouldn't do this?

Also, there have been a lot of posts that the stock bridge is lame. Should I consider replacing it altogether? If so, where do I get a replacement for it?

Many thanks. Great forum!

I would not cut the adjusters off. The bet way is to take it off the top of the bridge. If you are not confortable in doing this find someone to help you. There are no replacement bridges for the Palatino. At the nut is probable the biggest problem the action is to high from the factory. I cut mine down to .005 at the nut. Try this first! You would have to get 1/4 size brige and cut it to fit. I am in the process of making bridges to get the optimal preformance out of the Palatino electronics. I have purchased 2 more so I have more than just mo original to compare the sounds to. Once I get there I will but a CNC mill and begin to cut bridges to sell. I'm getting close.

 

[Krusty2]

I would not cut the adjusters off. The bet way is to take it off the top of the bridge. If you are not confortable in doing this find someone to help you. There are no replacement bridges for the Palatino. At the nut is probable the biggest problem the action is to high from the factory. I cut mine down to .005 at the nut. Try this first! You would have to get 1/4 size brige and cut it to fit. I am in the process of making bridges to get the optimal preformance out of the Palatino electronics. I have purchased 2 more so I have more than just mo original to compare the sounds to. Once I get there I will but a CNC mill and begin to cut bridges to sell. I'm getting close.

Thanks for the info! I'd be very interested in one of your bridges when they become available.

 

[any30]

I just got my VE-500 and it's pretty cool! This is my first upright so I'm struggling a bit with the high string action. I've got the bridge on the lowest setting but it's still too high. Rather than shave the wood-- which I'm not qualified to do-- I'm thinking of cutting down the metal adjuster posts. Are there any reasons I shouldn't do this?

Also, there have been a lot of posts that the stock bridge is lame. Should I consider replacing it altogether? If so, where do I get a replacement for it?

Many thanks. Great forum!

Hi,
I think there is no need of cutting down the metal adjuster posts. Simply remove the two screw-nuts from between the parts of the bridge. Although a one-piece bridge would be better.

 

[Nohandles]

Hi,
I think there is no need of cutting down the metal adjuster posts. Simply remove the two screw-nuts from between the parts of the bridge. Although a one-piece bridge would be better.

I think you will find the thumb screws are permently attached to the threads.

 

[Nohandles]

Today, since I hate the cold and needed something other that practice to occupy my time I decided to try some things that has been posted here in the past. I had never noticed and sounds other than the tones on my Palatio. I played it for a while and then added some 1/4 thick felt woven through the tail stock. Wow what an improvement on the clarity of the tones! I thought I didn't have this problem. There were some low buzzes and some things I never heard until I added the felt. I recored with and without and it really showed up. Sure glad we have this sight to share on.- Doug

 

[jamiefoxer]

well, I did it. After reading this thread's recommendations about the tailpiece, the pickups, and string replacement, I figured that, at worst, I'd have to spend a little more to upgrade a few parts (and I can do that with time). Figured that was better than shelling out $1200+ and above for another bass. At worst, I'll end up putting in $300.00 on the bass (in new strings, new pickup, new bridge, etc), and that's still cheaper.

I'll give you my own reports when I can, and I'll maybe even record a video and put it on YouTube, so people can get an idea of its tone ability...will keep you posted (will take a while to get it).

I bought from Ebay, from Mike's Music Mart...$624.99, free shipping. Cheapest I could find.

 

[robert bossart]

Dear palatino players

Just a question of language:
Do you understand by "tail stock" teh part of the strings between the bridge and the tailpiece?
If yes I can confirm the gain in clarity and precision of the tone, if this part is stopped from vibrating.

Thank you for the most usefull hints everybody is contributing.

Roberto

 

[DaBassman]

I used some of that grey foam that comes with air conditioners (to seal gap between windows)! Did you place yours just below the bridge or down against the tail/endpiece?
Thanks