Double Bass Palatino Megathread part I

[jamiefoxer]

i have a friend in the business who can get me a Fishman Full Circle pickup for the Palatino (to replace the stock pickup). What are people's opinions on this pickup in the Palatino? Reviews online seem to indicate it's an excellent pickup for acoustic uprights...but...how does it do with Electric Uprights like a Palatino?

Also, if I do install this pickup, would I need to get a Pre-Amp if I run it through my Ampeg BA-210SP 220Watt amplifier? SHOULD I use the onboard preamp instead or go directly to the amplifier?

Basically, I'm trying to get the best tone out of my Palatino without shelling unnecessary money on new equipment.

 

[Nohandles]

i have a friend in the business who can get me a Fishman Full Circle pickup for the Palatino (to replace the stock pickup). What are people's opinions on this pickup in the Palatino? Reviews online seem to indicate it's an excellent pickup for acoustic uprights...but...how does it do with Electric Uprights like a Palatino?

Also, if I do install this pickup, would I need to get a Pre-Amp if I run it through my Ampeg BA-210SP 220Watt amplifier? SHOULD I use the onboard preamp instead or go directly to the amplifier?

Basically, I'm trying to get the best tone out of my Palatino without shelling unnecessary money on new equipment.

I've spent a small fortune on gadgets to try on the Palatino because I have never owned an electric instrument before. As far as the things that have really made a difference, the rubber under the bridge, dampening the tail stock, new strings and the bridge I built for it were the most effective. Last year I a got a used SWR 120W Basic Black and that really made a great change, in fact I plug it direct accept for the foot tuner now. My formula is this: turn the bass volume down, turn the amp way up and adjust it with the bass control from there. This had been working great for me so far. I just played in a gym and people came and told me the bass sounded great.

 

[Nohandles]

Hi Gang,

I just spent the last 2 hours compiling all off the modifications we have made to our Palatino's. If I have missed any of you please don't shoot me, just Summery of all modifications to the Palatino.

Nohandles
I ordered some De'Addario Hybrids. While waiting I experimented with my K&K pre amp. I found if you turn the tone control almost all the way to the treble side turn down the volume on the bass and turn up the bass amp then regulate the bass with the pre amp it sounds really close to an acoustic. In fact I told my wife to listen to some new stuff I was working on and then used all 3 of my basses and she could not tell me which was which. Until I told her. Then she could here the electric, jazz thin body and the full sized bass. After putting on the De'Addarios you could really hear a great improvement.

Sheraton
Hi All... I bought a Palatino from Shanghai last oct. After few modification it sounds like a king:

1) Change the stock strings to Pirastro Flexocor Stark
2) Damped the ringing tailpiece!
3) Forget about the stock pickup and install a Bassmax.

Koolhand
So what to do...I first decided to get a Behringer Sustain\ Compression Pedal new for about $40 it did improve the sound but that low E note still did'nt ring right. It was like there was too much harshness being transferred from strings through the bridge to the transducer. So Soften it!!!!

WELL!!! My wife had just bought a roll of.....THIN... anti skid rubber matting for the kitchen draws, about $2 for 1.5 metres, this is the same stuff you put on the car dashboard to stop your glasses from slipping off.
I took out the bridge on the bass, gently lifted up the piezo pickup, cut a piece of this rubber grip mat to fit inside the full length and width of the block, cut a slit in the middle to the middle to accomadate the piezo lead, put the pickup back in its place and decided to also put a small pieces under each foot of the bridge to cushion the pickup.
Put it all back together, retuned, plugged into the Amp..........
WOW!!!!! What a difference!!!!!!!
Full WOOOD TONES ,,,, even increased the Volume, and the Tone control now has a full tonal sweep from DEEP to TREBLE but without the Harshness. I even removed the rubber sponge I had under the tail peice, nor do I use the Sustain Pedal.....well I haven't tried it since adding the rubber mat....might try it again but I doubt if it could improve the GREAT Sound I'm Getting now. TOTAL COST.....What I used.............20cents!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bassworm
Like many Palatino owners, I found the tubular body rest quite uncomortable after playing for a while and decided to do something about it. My alternative is a strip of aluminium, 50mm wide and about 3mm thick, curved into the rough shape of an upper bout. It's a bit crude at the moment but makes a world of difference in terms of comfort. It's permanently attached right now but sooner or later I'll get round to devising a quick-release version. Total cost 3 pounds (About US$5).

Pictures at http://www.pbase.com/bassworm/my_music
Rgr
Here's my $0.02 on the Palatino. I tried the bike inner tube under the pickup and the bridge feet but found that it sounded too muddy. It appears that the bridge angle has the biggest effect on getting it to sound good. The bridge does not naturally fall on the few points of contact that gets a full and loud sound. So, I took a piece of paper, folded to 10 layers, and 1/2 the width of the pickup and placed it between the pickup and the bass body to move the angle toward the tailpiece. The net effect was to change the bridge angle such that the bottom side of the bridge is perpendicular to the bass (just like how a bridge looks on an acoustic upright).

I also replaced the screws on the bridge with longer ones that ran up the bridge as far as possible. Doing this helped a lot with the sustain and stabilty of the bridge (the bridge had collapsed so often that the falling pieces put a bunch of dings in the bass). Doing these two things significantly improved the sound. It was much louder, fuller, and the tone control is very usable.

To stop the tailpiece from ringing, I bent the middle ring of the wire section out a little to keep it out of contact with the other wire parts of the tailpiece and that fixed it the feedback noise right away.

JazzDude
I've used a Tech 21 Bass DI pedal for years on my electrics, and it really helps if you want to get a big tone out of the Palatino.
I defiantly agree with this, it really a huge difference. Doug

Nohandels
New case
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I thought I would tell you that the custom case I had made at Colorado Case Co is really sweet! It is very well constructed and not like putting a girdle on the bass like the origoinal. It was $265.00 shipped. They have the pattern now so you won't have to make templated up of your bass. I had is made because the second day I owned it I dented the peghead and I am a non dent freek. All of my imstruments are like the day I got them. Sick I know! By the way you cant see the dent I filled it in with a black laquer stick to like new thank goodness!

JazzDude One I missed Sorry JazzDude
The stand I have has a boom, but the boom arm fits straight down into the vertical tube so only the end sticks out. I've seen other boom stands do this, but I don't know if they all do.
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Pharahamps
OK, I've done some more extensive testing using an A/B setup with my onboard pickup / preamp and my K&K BassMax setup.

* The bass is strung with Piastro Flat ChromeSteels (not my favorite strings,) and set up with a medium-low action, suitable for pizz playing. I haven't tried these comparisons with arco playing yet.

* The K&K is set up with both channel EQ's at their midpoints (flat settings,) and with their gain at the factory-recommended levels. While testing, I experimented with blending the wing and string/quad signals to get the most balanced tone.

* The stock pickup was in the wooden "box" holding the bridge, with no additional padding or insulating material installed. The stock preamp was replaced with my new preamp board.

I found the onboard setup to have less noise / hiss, and a fuller low end. The onboard pickup is actually quite decent, if a little thumpy. String balance is good, with a slightly lower output on the A and D strings. This setup sounds more like an "old school" upright tone, round with lots of thump.

The K&K setup is very clear-sounding, brighter and more defined. The noise level was higher (since the preamp has more gain plus the EQ,) but the treble was very nice-sounding. I much prefer the quad pickup to the wing pickup, but the blend is pretty good.

I'd like to hear the onboard under-bridge pickup blended with the quad pickup - I bet that would be cool. The under-bridge pickup seems to be the best at reproducing that great low end that these basses can deliver.

The verdict? I'd really like to have both setups available. For solo playing, or recording, the K&K setup would give a more accurate picture of the "whole" bass tone. But for playing with a band, I'd use the onboard pickup for sure. Even for some types of recording, I'd still choose the Palatino pickup since its nice "thump" would sit in a mix better.

I'm going to be selling these preamps if anyone is interested. gfred already has a PM about it. $49.99 plus $4 shipping in the US, $11 shipped anywhere else. All you need to install them is a Philips screwdriver and a decent pair of pliers (or an adjustable wrench.) The pickup just plugs in, you bolt in the new output jack and pots, install the knobs, and pull the battery snap into the existing compartment. It takes longer to pull the old preamp than it does to install the new one.

Matt Farrow

Nohandles
Post slides.
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I have been having trouble especially on concrete with the bass sliding all over. I tries using a rubber cup for chairs but it just wares out in no time. I think the best solution it to put in a Super Endpin ball. I'm going to remove the tapered plastic end and insert a piece of solid steel and then turn it down the the 11MM. This should do it. I have been using them on my other basses for 3 years now and don't have any trouble with slipping. Have any of you done any modifications to your end pin?
Bob Gollihur carried them

add yours to the list. Doug

 

[BigBeatNut]

Anyone from the UK here ?

Anyone tell me where in the UK, actually in or near London for preference, I can get a Palatino ?

Or if I'm stuck with web/mail order, is there anyone here kind enough to let me try theirs out ... maybe I could drop in to one of your gigs ?

Thanks in advance, Andy.

 

[DaBassman]

I love my Palatino, but has anyone seen/played the new
NS Wav??? They list for $1000+ but are selling for $895.....pretty close to what the Palatino's go for....

 

[Nohandles]

It never seemed to have good balance so I again midified the bridge and chanced the rubber under the feet. The bridge was sanded down until it was 1/8 wide at the top. The bridge I made was left to match the thickness of the origonal Palatino bridge. After some thought I decided to make it the same as an acoustic bridge would be at the string contact. Put it back together and still a little thin on the G D side. I then took off all the rubber on the G & D side and put back the bicycle intertube on the E & A leaving it out on the G & D It was close so I thin taped it until it was finaly just like I thought it should be. All strings are balanced and even in volume. Now I can play without pulling harder and softer from side to side. Just for the record the bridge ended up being tight on one side of the feet and loose on the other side. In other words it's not flat on the pickup.

 

[jamiefoxer]

I FINALLY tested my Palatino (arrived a few days ago).

The design of the bass was excellent. It's VERY nice looking and heavier than I thought it would be...feels VERY sturdy and the neck wood is hard.

The bridge came semi-incorrect: one of the "legs" of the bridge doesn't screw itself well into the slot...it just slides off...I had to just put the bridge on the pickup, put the strings over the bridge, tighten them and it just held the bridge in place, set to the action I had dialed in with the black wheels on the bridge. I practiced for 1 hour without a single problem or the strings falling off the bridge, or the bridge twisting around (something I feared might happen).

I can hear the "thinness" of the stock strings, but it wasn't as bad as I feared. If I had to, I'd gig with the bass AS-IS right now and I'd get 90% of the desired tone. The stock pickup hisses audibly when the volume on the bass is turned up, but you can't really hear it when playing with a group...only when the room is totally quiet. Solution? Turn the volume on your amp up...turn the volume up AS NEEDED on the bass.

I didn't hear any of the so-called "ringing" in the tailpiece, but I'd highly appreciate someone posting some sort of picture HOW-TO to put a rubber in the tailpiece, just in case...

I had two other fellow musicians listen to the bass and they were pretty impressed with the sound...to their ears, it sounded very much like an upright. I could tweak the treble up to get a more woody, jazz upright sound, or pump up the bass more and get more of a Cachao / Baby Bass sound for salsa applications.

So far, I like the deep bass tones out of the bass, but it's a little "thin/growly" for my taste. I figure a change of strings will give me more warmth, as well as a change in the bridge. I'm getting a Fishman Full Circle for it as well, so I'll see how these improvements change the sound. That, however, won't happen for a few months.

For now, I can gig with this bass and it will satisfactory. It's not so bad that I can't stand the sound coming out.

GREAT JOB Palatino!

 

[jamiefoxer]

on second thought, I'm noticing some of the issues others have noted.

Out of the box, the Palatino sounds very thin, and even with the tone knob set to full bass (and my amp with full bass, no treble or mid) it's still very treblish sounding. I'm assuming that this is a reflection of:

1) stock strings
2) the bridge not transmitting as good as a better bridge
3) the rubber dampening fix recommended by some here.

The strings and bridge will take me sometime to acquire, but can someone outline precise instructions on how to modify the pickup chamber under the bridge with the rubber modification. I'd like to see if that will improve the warmth and bass tone of the bass.

Please specify what materials to buy, so that future owners of the Palatino can follow the instructions to modify their basses. Much appreciated!

 

[Nohandles]

on second thought, I'm noticing some of the issues others have noted.

Out of the box, the Palatino sounds very thin, and even with the tone knob set to full bass (and my amp with full bass, no treble or mid) it's still very treblish sounding. I'm assuming that this is a reflection of:

1) stock strings
2) the bridge not transmitting as good as a better bridge
3) the rubber dampening fix recommended by some here.

The strings and bridge will take me sometime to acquire, but can someone outline precise instructions on how to modify the pickup chamber under the bridge with the rubber modification. I'd like to see if that will improve the warmth and bass tone of the bass.

Please specify what materials to buy, so that future owners of the Palatino can follow the instructions to modify their basses. Much appreciated!

Yes strings will make a great difference but 2 other mods are needed. D'Addario Helicore are what I like on mine
1 - the rubber. After extensive playing with different hardness’s of rubber I ended up with bicycle inner tube under the E & A foot of the bridge. Both under the pickup and on top of it. This evened out the tone.
2- You need to find the sweet spot on the bridge and this may mean the bridge does’ not sit flat on top of the pick up. Mine is leaning toward the fret board. I would not have believes it could make this much to the bass if I had not tried it myself.
Strings will make a huge difference to you.

 

[jamiefoxer]

thank you...i will try that...i'll get some of that bicycle tube stuff and try to put it under and above the pickup...the strings will have to wait (I can't shell out $100+ right now)

I'll post back with my results after I've tried it.

 

[Nohandles]

thank you...i will try that...i'll get some of that bicycle tube stuff and try to put it under and above the pickup...the strings will have to wait (I can't shell out $100+ right now)

I'll post back with my results after I've tried it.

You are very welcome. I know what you mean about string costs It's not like a guitar My other basses have Labella rope cores on them. I get them for 60 a set by buying 4 sets at a time. I also buy an extra E since it dies first. This give me an extra 3 months on the acoustics. I tries them on the palatino but as luck would have it they didn't sound very good to me. Guess I'm stuck with Helicores.
If you need any other help PM me and I'll do what I can. Doug

 

[jamiefoxer]

strings just last 3 months? Whew...I've heard (for electric bass) that LaBella tapewounds will last years and sound pretty much the same. Since I'm not primarily a double-bass player, is there any set of strings that would remain relatively the same in pitch and sound for at least a year and half? I don't want to have to change my strings every three months, especially since I don't see myself doing a LOT of gigging with the Palatino. I'd take it out for 4-5 performances where the old-school double bass sound would be necessary.

 

[Nohandles]

strings just last 3 months? Whew...I've heard (for electric bass) that LaBella tapewounds will last years and sound pretty much the same. Since I'm not primarily a double-bass player, is there any set of strings that would remain relatively the same in pitch and sound for at least a year and half? I don't want to have to change my strings every three months, especially since I don't see myself doing a LOT of gigging with the Palatino. I'd take it out for 4-5 performances where the old-school double bass sound would be necessary.

No No sorry if I miss lead you. I meant I get 6 months out of string and an extra 3 months by replacing the E string. This is on acoustic not an electric. I have had my strings on the Palatino for 11 months so far and they still sound great.

 

[jamiefoxer]

This is an interesting question, actually posed by someone else who just saw my new Palatino bass. They asked me what was the difference in sound from this bass and the classic Ampeg Baby Bass. My response was as follows:

"The Ampeg Baby Bass is made of composite fibers and filled with Uvex or foams (the replicas). They also have magnetic pickups and have a metal bridge. Therefore, their sound is more synthetic and less uprighty, but it does have a very characteristic "Ping-Bung" percussive sound that is favored in Salsa. Anything with more wood in the body and a wooden bridge will sound more "earthy", more uprighty, and will have more sustain."

So, here's the question that made me think about having my cake AND eating it too. I play salsa gigs a lot too, by the way,

"So, what is it about the Ampeg baby bass that gives its sound...is it more the metal bridge, or is it the filled, composite body?"

That got me thinking...my rational logic would say that the composite body dictates more the "SUSTAIN" aspect of the body (the fast decay of its notes, more percussive), while the metal bridge is more responsible for its sweeter "Ping-Bung" sound. I could be horribly wrong, but that's what I would rationally guess.

If that's the case, is it possible to get near Ampeg Baby Bass sounds with a Palatino by retrofitting it with a custom-made, equal-dimension metal bridge carved out of the same mold as the stock wood bridge that it comes with. Essentially, could I get both Baby Bass sounds (with a metal bridge) and upright-like sounds (with a wooden bridge) from the Palatino?

If I'm right, it would make sense to buy a Palatino instead of a Baby Bass, because you could exchange bridges depending on the character of a gig (wood for jazz, orchestral, traditional gigs, metal for salsa, latin-jazz). The Palatino, therefore, would be more extensible than a Baby Bass...it can do Baby Bass sounds, but the Baby Bass can't do the wood-upright sound like the Palatino.

Can someone confirm or challenge my hypotheses? It's just an educated guess...but I wonder if maybe my train of thinking could lead to adapting the Palatino toward Baby Bass applications.

 

[Francois Blais]

I had a BB several years ago and upgraded the pickup system to get a modern tone.
Here's my POV:
The uvex body is quite flexible, and will give less sustain than a solid body. It dampens the vibrations.
This enhances the thud-like quality of the tone.
The other part is the magnetic pickup.
I don't think the aluminum bridge is a big part in the equation.
The bridge feet rest on laminated metal "washers".
Laminated so they are flexible. (another thing that reduces sustain)
Underneath these washers are electromagnets.
The washers cause a fluctuation in the magnetic field, which is picked up by the wire coils.

If you want to simulate a BB tone with your Palatino (although I'm not very familiar with the instrument other than what I've read here), I'd play with the pickup system, and I'd try to mute the strings, with foam or a piece of rubber tubing.

Hope this helps!

 

[jamiefoxer]

If you want to simulate a BB tone with your Palatino (although I'm not very familiar with the instrument other than what I've read here), I'd play with the pickup system, and I'd try to mute the strings, with foam or a piece of rubber tubing.

thanks for that advice...I'll see what sounds I can approximate with the palatino

 

[BassyBill]

Anyone from the UK here ?

Anyone tell me where in the UK, actually in or near London for preference, I can get a Palatino ?

Or if I'm stuck with web/mail order, is there anyone here kind enough to let me try theirs out ... maybe I could drop in to one of your gigs ?

Thanks in advance, Andy.

I'm here!! You're welcome to come and try mine anytime, but it will mean a good drive for you... Wolverhampton, to be precise.

Bouhgt mine on ebay shipped from the US, by the way.

 

[BigBeatNut]

I'm here!! You're welcome to come and try mine anytime, but it will mean a good drive for you... Wolverhampton, to be precise.

Bouhgt mine on ebay shipped from the US, by the way.

Many thanks, appreciate the offer. You are some way away, though, so I'm not sure when it'll happen.

You're not going to the bassworld bash by any chance are you ? (bass get-together in northampton).

Glad you got yours shipped ok ... I nearly bought one from germany (on ebay) then I remembered all the horror stories about broken necks. Plus, I do want to hear one before I take the plunge, hence my message.

Cheers, Andy

 

[KentuckyJim]

I love the cymbal stand mod. I'm doing it too!

One of the things that really bugged me when I was in the process of purchasing a Palatino EUB, was the lack of visual/photographic detail about the bass. Plenty of information on the materials written down, but nothing really good to look at. Just tiny, bad quality jpgs and gifs. So it was hard to judge the scale or true look of the instrument before buying. I use Flickr, an online photo gallery community, and I've uploaded some shots of my bass in the hope that someone who might be considering buying one, will find them, and then get a better idea of what the bass really looks like. All pictures are 800 x 600 pixels in size. I don't know if all Palatino's have the same finish etc, but a photographic/visual resource of (any/all) EUB basses, is often a far better one than sometimes a descriptive one. Perhaps someone/anyone could set one up as I have and show and describe the modifications etc that have been made. I plan to add to mine as and when I make the necessary modifications. You can view it here:

Invalid Link Removed

 

[KentuckyJim]

Has anybody bought their Palantino off Ebay?
They're going for $659. Shipping included.
I'm really intrigued by what I've read here. I've been playing a Carruthers EUB for some time now but I've got some issues with it...
I like the looks of the Palantino. Might want to take the risk.

Can someone tell me how it would compare to a Messenger (except for the cost)?

Link Removed

I found mine on eBay, but as it turns out, the shop selling it was across the street from my house. Turns out that this guy is a great luthier. Mine had a bit of a hump in the neck and he dressed the fingerboard for free.

Find him on eBay and buy from this guy.