Passive-aggressive behavior

[Dust2Dust]

Did I happen to mention how proud I am of these guys?

This band

but they all

I'm soooo freaking proud of these guys.

and did such an amazing job.

I see potential problems with these posts, that is, if your bandmates are anything like me (way over-sensitive, with an inferiority complex).

To be clear, I'm just pointing out how things can be misread by those of us with my kinds of problems.
(Don't ask why, because we don't know why. To us our thinking seems normal.)

Also, I'm not suggesting that you change who you are to accommodate others. This is just to let you inside our heads to help you make whatever sense you can from it all.

"Did I happen to mention how proud I am of these guys?" . . . . "how proud I am" (somehow, we perceive that as you are believing that you are (more than a little) superior to those of us that "you are proud of" (for doing what we are SUPPOSED to do) (and/or we just played "Mary had a little lamb" flawlessly for the first time)
It's (taken as) condescending.

"proud of THESE guys" . . . .not "US" . . . . (taken as,) "Hell, everyone KNOWS I'm amazing, but just look how THESE GUYS are coming along!"



The rest of the quotes are more of the same. (Taken as) you've drawn a line between you and them, and you are all but dumbfounded at just how good they are getting. Hell, if they keep it up, you just might even call it "Our" band one day.



This post may not have a damn thing to with what's actually going on in the band, but at the very least, with your track record, you'll be dealing with the likes of me sooner or later, so count this as a preemptive heads-up if nothing else.

Good luck.

 

[LBS-bass]

I see potential problems with these posts, that is, if your bandmates are anything like me (way over-sensitive, with an inferiority complex).

To be clear, I'm just pointing out how things can be misread by those of us with my kinds of problems.
(Don't ask why, because we don't know why. To us our thinking seems normal.)

Also, I'm not suggesting that you change who you are to accommodate others. This is just to let you inside our heads to help you make whatever sense you can from it all.

"Did I happen to mention how proud I am of these guys?" . . . . "how proud I am" (somehow, we perceive that as you are believing that you are (more than a little) superior to those of us that "you are proud of" (for doing what we are SUPPOSED to do) (and/or we just played "Mary had a little lamb" flawlessly for the first time)
It's (taken as) condescending.

"proud of THESE guys" . . . .not "US" . . . . (taken as,) "Hell, everyone KNOWS I'm amazing, but just look how THESE GUYS are coming along!"



The rest of the quotes are more of the same. (Taken as) you've drawn a line between you and them, and you are all but dumbfounded at just how good they are getting. Hell, if they keep it up, you just might even call it "Our" band one day.



This post may not have a damn thing to with what's actually going on in the band, but at the very least, with your track record, you'll be dealing with the likes of me sooner or later, so count this as a preemptive heads-up if nothing else.

Good luck.

Please rephrase these things in a way that references the band without implying who the speaker is. I hear what you seem to be saying, but someone has to be the narrator in a post like this, and the posts are on MY social media page, NOT the band's page.

That means all of the posts there are from my perspective, not a band perspective. You spent a lot of time culling out all the times I used the word "I" on my own page. OMG.

Let me make it really clear: I do not have to say any of this, but I do because I think it's the right thing to do for the band and the people in it and I want the world to know that I, personally, do appreciate them. That's not some marketing BS, it's exactly how I feel.

It is HELPFUL and COMPLIMENTARY and if someone has a problem with me showing where my heart is, they don't belong in a band with actual human beings who speak from their own heart. It's also what I see dozens upon dozens of successful artists doing on social media every single day. So maybe tell those folks that they also have no right to say nice things about their bandmates. Why not? Let's just keep everything to ourselves from now on.

The band has a page, but nobody bothered to post anything there from the band's perspective, so... I have about six times the audience as the band page with much overlap, and posting there is a lot more efficient; if they want to speak for the band they can do that. Sometimes I do, but I try to give them the opportunity to do it.

Perhaps "we" should just shut up. Oh, yeah, that's exactly what I'm proposing, and now we can all see why. It's incredulous that I am even sitting here defending this.

See this is exactly the sort of "***?" thing I reference earlier. You try to be nice, inclusive, effusive in your praise and people will STILL find a way to make it a negative thing. If I used "we" instead of "I" someone would tell me I have no right to speak for the band on my personal page. If I put it on the band page they'd probably tell me I am making too many posts on there.

No matter how I put this, there will be a way to pick it apart and find fault - IF that is your goal. Good lord, this is a perfect example of how no good deed goes unpunished.

I am so done here.

 

[Dust2Dust]

This and YouTube are the only remotely social media type things that I do, so forgive my ignorance with such things. And, I thought you were posting on the band's page.

Also, I forgot that you are in multiple bands, so terms like "these guys", "those guys" probably aren't the offence that I first saw them as. I've always just been in one (sorry) band at a time, and we all referred it as our band.

From what I see now, just ignore that previous post.

 

[LBS-bass]

This and YouTube are the only remotely social media type things that I do, so forgive my ignorance with such things. And, I thought you were posting on the band's page.

Also, I forgot that you are in multiple bands, so terms like "these guys", "those guys" probably aren't the offence that I first saw them as. I've always just been in one (sorry) band at a time, and we all referred it as our band.

From what I see now, just ignore that previous post.

Thanks for that. You got my hackles up there for a minute, for sure. I see where people make lots of assumptions without really knowing but from the standpoint of the band, they know all these things. I'm just tired.

 

[Dust2Dust]

Yeah, I think I'm gonna just shut up now

 

[LBS-bass]

Yeah, I think I'm gonna just shut up now

Apologies; I guess I am a little sensitive too around all this, at this point!

 

[Dust2Dust]

No apologies needed

 

[EddiePlaysBass]

Please rephrase these things in a way that references the band without implying who the speaker is. I hear what you seem to be saying, but someone has to be the narrator in a post like this, and the posts are on MY social media page, NOT the band's page.

That means all of the posts there are from my perspective, not a band perspective. You spent a lot of time culling out all the times I used the word "I" on my own page. OMG.

Let me make it really clear: I do not have to say any of this, but I do because I think it's the right thing to do for the band and the people in it and I want the world to know that I, personally, do appreciate them. That's not some marketing BS, it's exactly how I feel.

It is HELPFUL and COMPLIMENTARY and if someone has a problem with me showing where my heart is, they don't belong in a band with actual human beings who speak from their own heart. It's also what I see dozens upon dozens of successful artists doing on social media every single day. So maybe tell those folks that they also have no right to say nice things about their bandmates. Why not? Let's just keep everything to ourselves from now on.

The band has a page, but nobody bothered to post anything there from the band's perspective, so... I have about six times the audience as the band page with much overlap, and posting there is a lot more efficient; if they want to speak for the band they can do that. Sometimes I do, but I try to give them the opportunity to do it.

Perhaps "we" should just shut up. Oh, yeah, that's exactly what I'm proposing, and now we can all see why. It's incredulous that I am even sitting here defending this.

See this is exactly the sort of "***?" thing I reference earlier. You try to be nice, inclusive, effusive in your praise and people will STILL find a way to make it a negative thing. If I used "we" instead of "I" someone would tell me I have no right to speak for the band on my personal page. If I put it on the band page they'd probably tell me I am making too many posts on there.

No matter how I put this, there will be a way to pick it apart and find fault - IF that is your goal. Good lord, this is a perfect example of how no good deed goes unpunished.

I am so done here.

Truth be told, this is (in my observation) an example of what I mentioned earlier: you respond very heavily when someone offers a different POV. You may have every good intention, which I don't doubt, but people can still perceive your actions differently. Whether you like it or not, and agree with their perception or not. Again, this is my observation, not passing judgement.

 

[LBS-bass]

Truth be told, this is (in my observation) an example of what I mentioned earlier: you respond very heavily when someone offers a different POV. You may have every good intention, which I don't doubt, but people can still perceive your actions differently. Whether you like it or not, and agree with their perception or not. Again, this is my observation, not passing judgement.

Well, I do find myself unhappy when I perceive that I'm being kicked for trying to be nice about things. And that's what this sort of thing feels like. It's as though you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

People should understand that this is what it does when you respond this way to someone's kindness - it shuts people out and causes them to question the worth of going the extra mile. Why bother being nice if people questioning your intent is the inevitable result? Why say anything when anything you say is subject to gross misinterpretation?

It makes one feel like the only other response that is unlikely to elicit additional kicking is to slink away quietly, and that's not really a very effective way to promote a band.

So yes, you bet I'll respond strongly here, to get a point across. There's zero percentage riding on it. It doesn't matter in the meat world whether I express myself here firmly or not. So, you want to come at me, you're going to get a response.

I'm a little more nuanced in the way I do things when there is more at stake.

 

[LBS-bass]

No apologies needed

Well, I feel the need to issue one anyway. We misunderstood each other, and I'll own my piece of that, for sure.

 

[EddiePlaysBass]

Well, I do find myself unhappy when I'm being kicked for trying to be nice about things. And that's what this sort of thing feels like. It's as though you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. People should understand that this is what it does when you respond this way to kindness - it shuts people out and causes them to question the worth of going the extra mile. Why bother being nice if people questioning your intent is the inevitable result? Why say anything when anything you say is subject to gross misinterpretation?

It makes one feel like the only other response that is unlikely to elicit additional kicking is to slink away quietly, and that's not really a very effective way to promote a band.

So yes, you bet I'll respond strongly here, to get a point across. There's zero percentage riding on it. It doesn't matter in the meat world whether I express myself here firmly or not. So, you want to come at me, you're going to get a response.

I'm a little more nuanced in the way I do things when there is more at stake.

For the record, I fully understand where you are coming from. I've been Mr Nice Guy all my life, and frankly it's not been worth it. People usually don't appreciate nice behaviour. But that's a (personal) rant for another day.

[Edit] Some of the issues you run into, are exactly the reason why I am "just" playing bass in my current band. I started that band, but the singer quickly wanted to take control. Any suggestion I had was ignored. So I figured, let's see what happens. Well, he ruined the social media pages as soon as he started em, booked us in a handful of venues where we didn't gain any traction etc etc. Now he's mad at the rest of us that we won't do anything, but hey, he reaped what he sowed

 

[Dust2Dust]

Truth be told, this is (in my observation) an example of what I mentioned earlier

In this example I was completely wrong though.

Her response should be expected. Just saying.

 

[EddiePlaysBass]

In this example I was completely wrong though.

Her response should be expected. Just saying.

Not my place to judge, but I do agree

 

[LBS-bass]

For the record, I fully understand where you are coming from. I've been Mr Nice Guy all my life, and frankly it's not been worth it. People usually don't appreciate nice behaviour. But that's a (personal) rant for another day.

I hear you. It often doesn't seem worth it - people will assume the worst about you no matter your intentions or actions.

You can see that here; for some people, any explanation of why their assumptions about me - that I'm not communicative, that I'm the one that's passive-aggressive, that I'm treating people badly or being critical or being bossy and assertive - I can counter these assumptions with clear examples, and they just switch to another reason or perspective for why I must be the problem here rather than the guy who is causing the problems that everyone notices. Maybe I am, but nobody else in the band thinks so, and they should know because they see it all. Other people want what I do, because they see how it's helpful. If I were going about things in such an awful way, why would they want me to help them?

It'd be fascinating if I were a psychologist.

But I'm the opposite. Part of the problem I'm having in this situation is that I haven't wanted to admit to what I'm probably dealing with here. This is a person who comes across as humble and quiet and just your all around nice guy. But his behavior here isn't matching up with the persona he conveys. His outward persona is Mr. Rogers and for three years I've been thinking that he's Mr. Rogers, but he's really Eddie Haskell, I guess. So that's a bit of a mental switch I have to make in order to figure out how to handle this. As long as I assume he's Mr. Rogers, I'm not going to make any sense out of this.

You can have a conversation with Mr. Rogers and it'll be productive. Eddie Haskell, not so much. I just want to assume everyone is Mr. Rogers, but they aren't.

 

[LBS-bass]

In this example I was completely wrong though.

Her response should be expected. Just saying.

You're a kindhearted person. Thanks for that!

 

[51PRI]

I hear you. It often doesn't seem worth it - people will assume the worst about you no matter your intentions or actions.

You can see that here; for some people, any explanation of why their assumptions about me - that I'm not communicative, that I'm the one that's passive-aggressive, that I'm treating people badly or being critical or being bossy and assertive - I can counter these assumptions with clear examples, and they just switch to another reason or perspective for why I must be the problem here rather than the guy who is causing the problems that everyone notices. Maybe I am, but nobody else in the band thinks so, and they should know because they see it all. Other people want what I do, because they see how it's helpful. If I were going about things in such an awful way, why would they want me to help them?

It'd be fascinating if I were a psychologist.

But I'm the opposite. Part of the problem I'm having in this situation is that I haven't wanted to admit to what I'm probably dealing with here. This is a person who comes across as humble and quiet and just your all around nice guy. But his behavior here isn't matching up with the persona he conveys. His outward persona is Mr. Rogers and for three years I've been thinking that he's Mr. Rogers, but he's really Eddie Haskell, I guess. So that's a bit of a mental switch I have to make in order to figure out how to handle this. As long as I assume he's Mr. Rogers, I'm not going to make any sense out of this.

You can have a conversation with Mr. Rogers and it'll be productive. Eddie Haskell, not so much. I just want to assume everyone is Mr. Rogers, but they aren't.

I find it hard to understand that you don't seem to understand that what you intend to do...stop doing the bands administrative, as you call them, duties, that you took on yourself,...is pretty much a classic case of passive agressiveness. At the very least call that band meeting and tell them that you're done with that stuff and turn the social media pages and band contracts over to someone else in the band.

 

[Lesfunk]

I’m so passive aggressive that I haven’t responded to this entire thread…

Oops

 

[Sands]

I find it hard to understand that you don't seem to understand that what you intend to do...stop doing the bands administrative, as you call them, duties, that you took on yourself,...is pretty much a classic case of passive agressiveness. At the very least call that band meeting and tell them that you're done with that stuff and turn the social media pages and band contracts over to someone else in the band.

Unnecessary roughness. 15 yards. First down.

 

[basseux]

Which is exactly why I have to step back. I am not the leader. I am the default leader only because no one else will do it.

I have no power to delegate or otherwise tell anyone what to do. They have the power to step up, or not, but it will be their choice, not mine.

But you own the rehearsal space.

Just don't notify him for the next rehearsal, and that's it.

Or invite the others to a sort of informal rehearsal at a different moment than usual rehearsal time, and if they ask why the other wasn't invited, you just can say he doesn't respond to your message.

I don't get why don't want to take real actions.

 

[LBS-bass]

I find it hard to understand that you don't seem to understand that what you intend to do...stop doing the bands administrative, as you call them, duties, that you took on yourself,...is pretty much a classic case of passive agressiveness. At the very least call that band meeting and tell them that you're done with that stuff and turn the social media pages and band contracts over to someone else in the band.

Because it's not passive aggressive to remove yourself from harm's way. They know that I'm not intending to move forward with that; I've already told them. It's not some hidden secret that I've handed over administration to someone else. Nobody has to guess at what I'm going to do or not do. I can't delegate in the traditional sense because I was never given full responsibility in any official sense, but I can step back from what I obviously already do and give that to the singer - and I have.

Whether they decide to take on more responsibility is up to them. I'm not banging my head up against a wall anymore because it isn't healthy for anyone, least of all me.

Why is it ok for that guy to make a mess of everything by not responding to requests for availability, but not ok for me to step back in order to tend to my own emotional well-being? You make it sound like I owe them a lot more than I do, even at the expense of my own mental health, when I really don't owe them anything at all.

I'm just supposed to keep churning out exercises in futility because that's what I've always done, with all the stress that brings me, as though that somehow fixes it? Do you think this is some weird punitive thing? Do you not realize this is about me not having room for all this stress in my life anymore? I am full up to the eyebrows with stress and worry for months and months, and I just need it to be over.

It's a band. It's supposed to be fun. It's not supposed to be a black hole of endless tension.

It's pretty classic, really. Givers give and takers take, and when the givers get tired then everyone gets upset because the free ride is over, as though they were owed that free ride all along.

It sounds to me like that's your take on this. But they never were. I never owed them anything.