Passive-aggressive behavior

[LBS-bass]

@LBS-bass - Thanks for the link on grey rocking. The article does describe it as a temporary solution. I hope that your band can get past this and back to letting you do the things that make you successful.

One thought... Maybe the band member thinks that he's grey rocking. The inaction and results are similar but one won't know the intent without talking about it.

Well, I wouldn't know why he would feel the need to do that. There's really nobody more inclusive and inquisitive as to their thoughts than I am. I always ask them for their opinions and we always have a discussion before we make any sort of decisions. I've checked in with them at least twice over the past three months about our direction, asking things like whether or not the direction I believe we agreed to is really what they still want or not - I felt like this was appropriate when we brought the new member on board and she had some ideas about booking shows that I felt we wouldn't want to do - a farmer's market and another thing with a transient crowd - and I wanted to check the pulse of the other members on those things because I wanted to be sure we were all on the same page about not wanting to do that sort of show.

We also had a lot of discussion about bringing in the new member, because I knew that would change our band dynamic. I was very clear that I wanted them to speak out if they thought this wasn't going to be satisfactory to them. We'd been searching for a new member for a long time with what seemed to be unobtainium requirements so we had a discussion around what we might realistically expect to find, and he actually spoke up in favor of moving forward with it.

That's the sort of thing I do frequently, and if anything it's perhaps that stuff that can get annoying. I get it, some people just don't want to be bothered for their input, but it's not what I would consider toxic behavior that someone would feel the need to go grey rock over unless it's being seriously misinterpreted. And if that's the case, once again, it's not a problem I feel qualified to fix. Beyond all that, I provide a welcoming space for rehearsal with beverages, I ask them for their input on shows and dates, I praise their good work effusively (and publicly) when we have a good show (or any show, really) and always give them the credit for the job well done. Here's an example of the kind of thing I'll put on social media after a show:

<posted with video> Did I happen to mention how proud I am of these guys? This band didn't rehearse for almost a month prior to this show because several members were recovering from illness, but they all brought it to the stage when it counted, anyway. Most of our songs feature the harmony vocals, but this one really shines a light on XXXXXX's jazz drumming as well as the fabulously soulful singing of XXXXXXX.
​

Looking forward to rehearsing with this crew tonight!

or:

<also posted with video> So happy to finally have some audience video to share. <band name> covering Steely Dan.

I'm soooo freaking proud of these guys. XXXXXX and XXXXXX and I have been playing together for a bit. Our newest member XXXXXX worked so hard to get ready for this show and totally brought her and XXXXXX has been working hard too, and did such an amazing job.

We will be at <another club> on July XX; if you aren't busy, come out and join us. It's an early show, and we have great music ready to play for you.​

I went more in depth for the newer two members on the last one (which was actually posted first), because they really have worked very hard to get up to speed for that show. I am always happy to praise the whole band; they are the ones who do the heavy lifting.

I call them out by name sometimes to mention how well they did something, maybe he doesn't like that? He's the only one who never posts anything to promote the shows on there. I'm the one who, again by default, does these promotional sorts of posts, and it's an example of the sort of bandleaderish thing I do that helps us build our audience. Maybe he thinks it's cloying or unnecessary or puts me in too visible a position. Our LS will usually post something just before a show to invite folks out, but i'm the only one who will gush over what a great job they did etc. Too much?

Anyway, if I'm doing something that seems intimidating, it's a mystery to me. All I am attempting to do is keep everyone happy while building our audience, which I know is an impossible task.

 

[LBS-bass]

Nope. …not if BL’s willing and up to the job, even marginally. Life’s too short…

I'm the default BL. There is no other BL.

 

[BadSanta1281]

I grew up in a passive aggressive family and spent a good deal of my childhood grey rocking. I just never knew there was a name for it until yesterday.

Once I was out in the world on my own I quit grey rocking. I just called out the behavior right away, face to face, and either resolved the issue or knew the reason why. Sometimes people didn't appreciate my direct approach but most times we worked things out amicably.

I wound up managing car dealerships and crews of salespeople. Talk about passive aggressiveness!

 

[LBS-bass]

I grew up in a passive aggressive family and spent a good deal of my childhood grey rocking. I just never knew there was a name for it until yesterday.

Once I was out in the world on my own I quit grey rocking. I just called out the behavior right away, face to face, and either resolved the issue or knew the reason why. Sometimes people didn't appreciate my direct approach but most times we worked things out amicably.

I wound up managing car dealerships and crews of salespeople. Talk about passive aggressiveness!

I am sorry to hear that about your family. Glad you developed the stomach to tolerate and confront but my experience is that it just makes them worse when you call them out. I've literally been poisoned by a family member who smiled at me as they poured my tea after I questioned something they did (I know that's a hard story to believe and for that reason I rarely share it).

You walk away from experiences like that with a slightly more self-protective view of how to move forward.

 

[EddiePlaysBass]

From these last posts, I gather you are acting as band leader. Where do you fit in the time scale? Are you after him and the guitarist? I guess drummer and newest member came after you three.

Perhaps he sees the guitarist as BL, and disagrees with what he perceives as you "hijacking the band"?

 

[LBS-bass]

From these last posts, I gather you are acting as band leader. Where do you fit in the time scale? Are you after him and the guitarist? I guess drummer and newest member came after you three.

Perhaps he sees the guitarist as BL, and disagrees with what he perceives as you "hijacking the band"?

The LS and I are the only remaining founding members. He came aboard third, then we lost a guitarist and, after Covid, decided not to work with the original drummer any more. At that point the three of us started this band in order to retool things with a slightly different focus. So we started it together, but after waiting a few weeks to see what they would do in rehearsals I realized that they'd just noodle around for three hours because it was fun, and someone had to write things down. So it started there; I became the administrative person who writes things down and makes lists, and I've really never considered it much more than that, because that's really all a BL needs to be.

But of course from there it spirals into being the person who recruited new members, books shows (because I had the contacts), maintains all the promotional materials (though they have access to our social media and now and then one of them will post something), etc. We had conversations about strategy, hence my recent need to affirm their continued positions on that.

 

[51PRI]

Did he not let someone else know? The guy MUST talk to her?

Did anyone ever consider, even for a moment,

that there just might be more to this story?

Of course there is but, unless the P/A person chimes in on this thread we will likely never know what it is. Even so, if a band member fails to respond to important band texts it's a problem.

 

[BadSanta1281]

I am sorry to hear that about your family. Glad you developed the stomach to tolerate and confront but my experience is that it just makes them worse when you call them out. I've literally been poisoned by a family member who smiled at me as they poured my tea after I questioned something they did (I know that's a hard story to believe and for that reason I rarely share it).

You walk away from experiences like that with a slightly more self-protective view of how to move forward.

Holy ****! That goes way beyond passive aggressive behavior.

Although it does sometimes make things worse to call it out, it usually leads to a resolution (for better or worse). I just don't have the patience to play those games, at least outside my family.

 

[LBS-bass]

Holy ****! That goes way beyond passive aggressive behavior.

Although it does sometimes make things worse to call it out, it usually leads to a resolution (for better or worse). I just don't have the patience to play those games, at least outside my family.

If it were a clear leadership role with all in agreement that I have the power to hire and fire, it would be different. But that's not the situation here. Taking it into "firm talking to" territory and telling someone to shape up, or else, would definitely be perceived as overreach by the whole band.

 

[bajaandy]

I’ll try to keep this short.
Band member rebelling by not responding to my texts in group chat.
The drummer suggests I have a talk with this guy.
Should I bother?

I admit that I've drastically boiled down your original post, but IME the short answer to this question is YES. Yes, you should bother to communicate about the behavior and your perception of it. Communication isn't always easy and it isn't always pleasant, but the outcome will guide your next move whatever that may be.

What if it works?

p.s. At my age, grey rocking has a completely alternate meaning.

 

[gln1955]

The LS and I are the only remaining founding members. He came aboard third, then we lost a guitarist and, after Covid, decided not to work with the original drummer any more. At that point the three of us started this band in order to retool things with a slightly different focus. So we started it together, but after waiting a few weeks to see what they would do in rehearsals I realized that they'd just noodle around for three hours because it was fun, and someone had to write things down. So it started there; I became the administrative person who writes things down and makes lists, and I've really never considered it much more than that, because that's really all a BL needs to be.

But of course from there it spirals into being the person who recruited new members, books shows (because I had the contacts), maintains all the promotional materials (though they have access to our social media and now and then one of them will post something), etc. We had conversations about strategy, hence my recent need to affirm their continued positions on that.

Thanks for filling in that history. Your p/a person's lack of text responses is a whole band problem and it sounds like they recognize that to some extent. The question is why isn't everyone on his case about it? In one of my previous bands, we had a guy who would not respond to time critical texts or emails. Three of us would get on him both in the text chain and at rehearsals (he and drummer were buddies, so drummer would let it all slide). It helped for a while at least but we ended up firing him for other reasons.

So again, why isn't this more of a band problem with a band solution, rather than it all falling on you? From what you describe, it sounds like they may not be as invested into the whole thing as you are. Are they OK going back to noodling for fun and not that interested in gigs and all that goes with it?

 

[LBS-bass]

So again, why isn't this more of a band problem with a band solution, rather than it all falling on you?

That is the question I have been asking myself, and also them. I have asked them to speak up more on various things when discussions need to happen and I have asked them to have my back on prodding this guy to respond, but they are all quite timid about rocking the boat, I think. However, the newer member is coming in from the outside and she has called it as she sees it, at least to me - saying it's disrespectful. She is right. So a big part of me stepping back is to see if they will fill the void appropriately.

They all need to start stepping up and if they don't this band will not survive. And i have other bands that see our success, that want me to do the kind of things I do for them, and are not afraid to say thank you and express appreciation (which has never happened with the first band). So at this point my right foot is halfway out the door.

 

[TomB]

I'm the default BL. There is no other BL.

Ah - I see. Well, delegation is a skill of good leaders .

 

[LBS-bass]

Ah - I see. Well, delegation is a skill of good leaders .

Which is exactly why I have to step back. I am not the leader. I am the default leader only because no one else will do it.

I have no power to delegate or otherwise tell anyone what to do. They have the power to step up, or not, but it will be their choice, not mine.

 

[TomB]

Which is exactly why I have to step back. I am not the leader. I am the default leader only because no one else will do it.

I have no power to delegate or otherwise tell anyone what to do. They have the power to step up, or not, but it will be their choice, not mine.

Like stepping’ on a plum, eh . I don’t blame you! It’s frustrating, but I hope it feels healthier in the end.

 

[Spidey2112]

So at this point my right foot is halfway out the door.

I bet I know where the left foot will be, if something isn't resolved.

 

[Spidey2112]

... but I hope it feels healthier in the end.

A left foot? Maybe a right, but never the left.

 

[LBS-bass]

I bet I know where the left foot will be, if something isn't resolved.

My left foot is never far behind. Also a good name for a movie.

 

[Spidey2112]

My left foot is never far behind. Also a good name for a movie.

(Beavis): She said, left foot and behind in the same sentence... huhuhuh, huhuhuh.

 

[LBS-bass]

(Beavis): She said, left foot and behind in the same sentence... huhuhuh, huhuhuh.