Passive-aggressive behavior

[Jason Hollar]

Question: is said p/a musician not getting back to you on just rehearsals and administrative stuff?

Or on gig dates too?

Maybe the band (or this particular musician) has evolved past the rehearsal part with just a sideman mindset.

 

[Phillipgh]

I’ll try to keep this short. Band member rebelling by not responding to my texts in group chat. He responds to the male lead singer.

it’s not a perception on my part; everyone has complained to me about it. The problem is they complain to me. By default I do almost all of the administrative work, etc.

Once I recognized this as passive-aggressive stuff aimed at me, I texted the singer and asked him to handle group announcements, etc. he agreed. I then told the band I was handing that over and the problem member gave an enthusiastic thumbs up.

The drummer suggests I have a talk with this guy. Ordinarily I agree that open communication is key, but my experience with p/a people is that’s just an opportunity for them to gaslight you, which they will do by telling you it’s your imagination. Again, the whole band is seeing this.

not sure how I’ll ultimately move forward. I don’t want to add drama and am inclined to just pull back and let them figure out how to drive the car. I’m not inclined to waste any more energy on this.

what say you? Should I bother?

Fire him.

 

[LBS-bass]

Question: is said p/a musician not getting back to you on just rehearsals and administrative stuff?

Or on gig dates too?

Maybe the band (or this particular musician) has evolved past the rehearsal part with just a sideman mindset.

Pretty much anything I ask him, including possible gig dates.

 

[MattFoes]

Does this member write the songs? Or own anything integral to performance (ie PA, Speakers, other bits of band gear). If not I’d get rid of them.

You’re right, Passive Agressive people love to gaslight when confronted about their behavior so simply talking to them might not work.

You could be the best musician in the world but if you’re a bummer to hang out with or interact with Pre/Post gig I’d rather find someone else. P/A behavior benefits no one, not the person doing it and definitely not the band.

 

[51PRI]

Fire him.

OP has already said that she can't fire him.

...
When you have a band, *everyone* needs to be on board and communicating with each other 100%.....

It's hard to book a band if the booker doesn't know each band member's availability. I think there is an app for that, maybe even on Gmail.

Don't mean to sound callous or unforgiving, but there's evidence of an emotional/relationship problem here. He has an issue with any authority you may have in the band....

True. Mr. P/A has a problem with the OP's authority for some reason.

Keep doing what you're doing and ignore him. If you want some fun, drop him from your group texts. If he notices and says something, just tell him he never responded so you assumed he wasn't interested in what you had to say. Play his game, only better.

How would he notice that he isn't included in a group text in which he isn't included?

...tell the other members you’re firing the offensive member.....

She has already posted that she can't fire him, and he can't fire her.

 

[davesmusic]

I’ll try to keep this short. Band member rebelling by not responding to my texts in group chat. He responds to the male lead singer.

it’s not a perception on my part; everyone has complained to me about it. The problem is they complain to me. By default I do almost all of the administrative work, etc.

Once I recognized this as passive-aggressive stuff aimed at me, I texted the singer and asked him to handle group announcements, etc. he agreed. I then told the band I was handing that over and the problem member gave an enthusiastic thumbs up.

The drummer suggests I have a talk with this guy. Ordinarily I agree that open communication is key, but my experience with p/a people is that’s just an opportunity for them to gaslight you, which they will do by telling you it’s your imagination. Again, the whole band is seeing this.

not sure how I’ll ultimately move forward. I don’t want to add drama and am inclined to just pull back and let them figure out how to drive the car. I’m not inclined to waste any more energy on this.

what say you? Should I bother?

We had a similar issue among the best of friends bandmates. It was how the person responding selected or rather failed to correctly set who he chose to respond to. Very simple fix with no accusing texts that can't ne unsent.

 

[LBS-bass]

We had a similar issue among the best of friends bandmates. It was how the person responding selected or rather failed to correctly set who he chose to respond to. Very simple fix with no accusing texts that can't ne unsent.

This is not a technical problem.

 

[Michael Raftice]

I’ll try to keep this short. Band member rebelling by not responding to my texts in group chat. He responds to the male lead singer.

it’s not a perception on my part; everyone has complained to me about it. The problem is they complain to me. By default I do almost all of the administrative work, etc.

Once I recognized this as passive-aggressive stuff aimed at me, I texted the singer and asked him to handle group announcements, etc. he agreed. I then told the band I was handing that over and the problem member gave an enthusiastic thumbs up.

The drummer suggests I have a talk with this guy. Ordinarily I agree that open communication is key, but my experience with p/a people is that’s just an opportunity for them to gaslight you, which they will do by telling you it’s your imagination. Again, the whole band is seeing this.

not sure how I’ll ultimately move forward. I don’t want to add drama and am inclined to just pull back and let them figure out how to drive the car. I’m not inclined to waste any more energy on this.

what say you? Should I bother?

My feelings are that life is too short to play music with ********. I genuinely love the other 8 members of my 9nleoce band. We are ages 22-63 and come from different walks of life but we are a family who cares about each other. It matters. The audience can see the genuine affection we have for one another. We don't do drama. Move on. You don't need this guy in your life or any of the others who tolerate his ********.

 

[Michael Raftice]

I’ll try to keep this short. Band member rebelling by not responding to my texts in group chat. He responds to the male lead singer.

it’s not a perception on my part; everyone has complained to me about it. The problem is they complain to me. By default I do almost all of the administrative work, etc.

Once I recognized this as passive-aggressive stuff aimed at me, I texted the singer and asked him to handle group announcements, etc. he agreed. I then told the band I was handing that over and the problem member gave an enthusiastic thumbs up.

The drummer suggests I have a talk with this guy. Ordinarily I agree that open communication is key, but my experience with p/a people is that’s just an opportunity for them to gaslight you, which they will do by telling you it’s your imagination. Again, the whole band is seeing this.

not sure how I’ll ultimately move forward. I don’t want to add drama and am inclined to just pull back and let them figure out how to drive the car. I’m not inclined to waste any more energy on this.

what say you? Should I bother?

A bass player can always get another gig.

 

[craigmack1979]

There's gotta be more here. Is there any logical reason this band member will not address you directly? Why exactly would they see themselves as having a reason to rebel?

If this member really is purposefully ignoring you, then that is a pretty bad group dynamic. Personally i can't see myself working with someone like that for very long because that is super childish. I dont think i would attempt a one on one with this person because i don't see the need for them starting such drama in the first place. Ultimately it might lead to me departing the project cause i do this for fun mostly and dealing with someone that hates me is not my idea of a good time.

 

[craigmack1979]

My feelings are that life is too short to play music with ********. I genuinely love the other 8 members of my 9nleoce band. We are ages 22-63 and come from different walks of life but we are a family who cares about each other. It matters. The audience can see the genuine affection we have for one another. We don't do drama. Move on. You don't need this guy in your life or any of the others who tolerate his ********.

I would not be in that band

 

[craigmack1979]

That’s horrible situation. I’ve heard horror stories where bands make great music and hate each other after last note played

 

[Michael Stanley 2112]

If I just couldn't stand someone with whom I was in a band and they ...

A) ... weren't the band leader: I would handle it just this way. I don't need to talk to you and I don't want to encourage you, talking to me.

B) ... were the band leader: I would quit the band.

 

[DolphinBro]

If I may, as the offending passive-aggressor appears to favor and hold confidence in the male lead singer, it is perhaps said male lead singer's responsibility to put passive-aggressor in his place and explain the necessity of treating everybody with respect. Silence is complicity, as they say. If male lead singer simply goes along with passive-aggressor's unacceptable behavior, he is in fact fueling the fire.

"Once I recognized this as passive-aggressive stuff aimed at me, I texted the singer and asked him to handle group announcements, etc. he agreed. I then told the band I was handing that over and the problem member gave an enthusiastic thumbs up."

I think that by acquiescing to the passive-aggressor's displeasure with you in this manner, you may have inadvertently enabled and empowered him. I simply don't see a good long-term outcome if this situation isn't addressed directly and perhaps even aggressively by all involved.

What he said.

Once I was making some difficult cuts on a table saw. On the last piece I was thinking about getting back to the job site and oops... A kickback took 1/4" off my little finger.

The lesson is, "Focus on your work right in front of you." When you lose concentration, you lose direction. I wouldn't stop doing anything because you have good reasons for your work. Let whiners, PA's, drama "queens", and ego maniacs do their thing. And if they get in your way, simply ask them what's up right then. Otherwise, carry on with your visions. I bet this will work itself out naturally which may include personnel changes. Change is good.

 

[Abz]

I’ll try to keep this short. Band member rebelling by not responding to my texts in group chat. He responds to the male lead singer.

it’s not a perception on my part; everyone has complained to me about it. The problem is they complain to me. By default I do almost all of the administrative work, etc.

Once I recognized this as passive-aggressive stuff aimed at me, I texted the singer and asked him to handle group announcements, etc. he agreed. I then told the band I was handing that over and the problem member gave an enthusiastic thumbs up.

The drummer suggests I have a talk with this guy. Ordinarily I agree that open communication is key, but my experience with p/a people is that’s just an opportunity for them to gaslight you, which they will do by telling you it’s your imagination. Again, the whole band is seeing this.

not sure how I’ll ultimately move forward. I don’t want to add drama and am inclined to just pull back and let them figure out how to drive the car. I’m not inclined to waste any more energy on this.

what say you? Should I bother?

 

[Asher Platts]

Yep those could be the reasons. Some people just can't stand anyone coming from a state of authority. I don't think confronting this person is really worth it.

I think you should talk to the whole band about it and have an intervention about it. Either they straighten up and fly right, or they realize that they're the jerk, and they leave, and you find somebody who is a professional and wants to be there.

Either way, bringing things to a head is a necessary thing in these types of situations, which everyone always wants to avoid, because confrontations suck, they make everybody feel really bad really intensely.

But if the rest of the band is on the same page about it, and they all have your back, then it doesn't fall all on you, and they can either change their behavior, or your can change your lineup. There is no reason to put up with people being unprofessional, and frankly, everyone will feel better after you confront them about it.

 

[Abz]

I’ll try to keep this short. Band member rebelling by not responding to my texts in group chat. He responds to the male lead singer.

it’s not a perception on my part; everyone has complained to me about it. The problem is they complain to me. By default I do almost all of the administrative work, etc.

Once I recognized this as passive-aggressive stuff aimed at me, I texted the singer and asked him to handle group announcements, etc. he agreed. I then told the band I was handing that over and the problem member gave an enthusiastic thumbs up.

The drummer suggests I have a talk with this guy. Ordinarily I agree that open communication is key, but my experience with p/a people is that’s just an opportunity for them to gaslight you, which they will do by telling you it’s your imagination. Again, the whole band is seeing this.

not sure how I’ll ultimately move forward. I don’t want to add drama and am inclined to just pull back and let them figure out how to drive the car. I’m not inclined to waste any more energy on this.

what say you? Should I bother?

Just have a band meeting and lay out everything that’s causing any issues. Maybe there is a better reason than you realize for the issues. that you’re facing.

 

[BQFS]

In my extensive experience in life, I have come to the conclusion that the only way to deal with bad behavior is to confront it head on. If you don't, then you are basically saying the behavior is acceptable.

 

[LBS-bass]

I think that by acquiescing to the passive-aggressor's displeasure with you in this manner, you may have inadvertently enabled and empowered him. I simply don't see a good long-term outcome if this situation isn't addressed directly and perhaps even aggressively by all involved.

I think the experts disagree with this, as per the article I posted above.

I've not "acquiesced" to anything. I've simply taken myself out of his crosshairs. If he wants to come after me, he has to find different ways to do it. And the funny thing is, I know this behavior well, and I think the people here who know me best will also confirm that I do not put up with endless BS nor do I suffer fools gladly. I am pretty much a FAAFO kinda gal.

On the other side of this, he has a right to whatever it is he's feeling. So he's allowed to feel empowered to continue doing whatever it is he's decided he needs to do. And we are empowered to watch and decide if his behavior rises to a level that needs to be permanently addressed.

There's a smart way to handle people and there's a stupid way. Getting confrontational with this guy would be as stupid as it gets. There's no comfortable way to handle this that fixes the problem instantly, and I can tell that's what a lot of people would like to pretend we could all do here. But it's not really feasible, nor is any confrontational approach likely to help.

Interesting development. Another member asked about rehearsal this week. Turns out he's made himself unavailable for our usual rehearsal day, and our usual alternate day. While I get that things happen, I find it interesting that he's now responding but continuing to display to us that the band is not anywhere on his personal priority list.

Could just be a coincidence, maybe it's his wife's birthday or whatever, so I'm not going to read too much into it. We agreed to practice on Friday, which he may have figured wouldn't work for all of us.

So, we'll just keep going ahead; if these little things continue then he's digging his grave with the rest of us, and will probably also be relieved to be given an opportunity to leave, if it comes to that. I know what it feels like to be in a band when you've decided you can't do it anymore. He needs to just come out and say it, if that's where he's at with it. It'll be easier on everyone.

 

[Ron Aguiar]

I’ll try to keep this short. Band member rebelling by not responding to my texts in group chat. He responds to the male lead singer.

it’s not a perception on my part; everyone has complained to me about it. The problem is they complain to me. By default I do almost all of the administrative work, etc.

Once I recognized this as passive-aggressive stuff aimed at me, I texted the singer and asked him to handle group announcements, etc. he agreed. I then told the band I was handing that over and the problem member gave an enthusiastic thumbs up.

The drummer suggests I have a talk with this guy. Ordinarily I agree that open communication is key, but my experience with p/a people is that’s just an opportunity for them to gaslight you, which they will do by telling you it’s your imagination. Again, the whole band is seeing this.

not sure how I’ll ultimately move forward. I don’t want to add drama and am inclined to just pull back and let them figure out how to drive the car. I’m not inclined to waste any more energy on this.

what say you? Should I bother?

I don't know anything about you, that is, how long you have been doing this ,how old you are where you play ( bars, corporate etc...) here is my $0.02 and worth at least half off that. I have been playing professionally since I was 15, over time I have toured in support of national acts, played as a sub for a band with a #1 hit and worked with some of the highest paid , if not the best bands in my area. I have also worked for nothing and for $30 a night in bars, so I am probably like a lot of us ! I was also a band leader for a long time. I learned from another band leader to always treat people better than they expected, but also not take any crap. Pay them according to what they do none of this B.S. everyone makes the same money! Unless everyone is doing the same amount of work. and Someone has to be the band leader, book gigs ,meet with clients, decide on songs and at times personnel. That said I would talk to band member who is not being responsive with the entire band present and tell him or her that when you send out a global text to the band , you expect everyone to respond within 24 or 48 hours or whatever timeframe you agree on. If this person does not want to do that let him or her move on. No one is so valuable that they can waste time on the others. My guess is that there is an underlying problem. The longer you wait to fix it the harder and more destructive it will become. I fired my partner for a similar issue and yeah, he and I owned the band business!