Sorry for your situation. I wouldn’t hold much hope for a positive resolution. The band as a whole is the organization to serve, jerks find their own level.
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Passive-aggressive behavior
- Thread starter LBS-bass
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I get that a lot…unanswered texts. I think it’s very passive-aggressive. Annoying at the least. It tells that me they don’t respect my opinions….or… they think I’m weird…
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We've been having a similar problem with the drummer for several months now. Plus missed rehearsals due to travel which he doesn't always tell us about in advance. And a major venue booking in October which he can't make due to travel. A fill-in and possible replacement is being sought.
It's just disrespectful and unacceptable. And I won't tolerate it.
It's just disrespectful and unacceptable. And I won't tolerate it.
Having been "on the sideline" before (not the target of p/a, but hearing from the p/a person about their rationale), most people who are p/a can have ridiculous reasons for having beef or holding a grudge with someone.
Literally been things like "They moved my gear over at rehearsal" or "They asked why I showed up late" and "I can't stand their voice". P/A people are typically petty to begin with, and ARE p/a in the first place because they likely know their reasons are BS and won't hold up under scrutiny.
I try to distance myself before becoming the target. They're usually &#@%-talkers and backstabbers anyways, so who knows what lengths they'll go to just to get a dig at you. Personally, if it has gotten to that point I'd find a way to jet them or move on.
Literally been things like "They moved my gear over at rehearsal" or "They asked why I showed up late" and "I can't stand their voice". P/A people are typically petty to begin with, and ARE p/a in the first place because they likely know their reasons are BS and won't hold up under scrutiny.
I try to distance myself before becoming the target. They're usually &#@%-talkers and backstabbers anyways, so who knows what lengths they'll go to just to get a dig at you. Personally, if it has gotten to that point I'd find a way to jet them or move on.
Now that I'm back home where I can type on a real keyboard, a couple of points.
My job at the University involved a lot of communications. If I'm a bad communicator that would be news to all the people I used to work for.
I do get verbose at times, because I want to make sure everyone has all the information they need before they start asking me questions. If people are too ADHD to read important info, that's not my problem.
The group text shows who has seen each text. It's not a matter of the guy not seeing them, nor is it a matter of him not being able to respond right away. An example of this is earlier this week. My schedule changed and the LS and I became available on our normal rehearsal day. This happened the day before that day. I immediately sent out a text to ask if they wanted to get together the following night. It's a simple yes or no.
Within two hours everyone had read the text and responded to me, except the one guy. He had read it, but didn't respond. At 2:00 the following afternoon, I'm getting texts from other members asking me if I've heard from the problem guy.
You know, I'm really tired of having to field those questions. I'm also tired of having to crawl up this guy's butt to beg him to answer me. So at 2:30 I texted to let them know that I had a headache (true) and was going to pull the plug on the proposed rehearsal.
A few days before that I sent out a text asking if they were all available for a date in January. One of my contacts had proposed a split-bill show that would have put us in front of a great crowd in our favorite club for a high-energy gig. Everyone else responded to say they were open, problem guy NEVER did, even though I saw that he had seen the question. He still hasn't responded to that. At this point, I'm pulling it off the table because I am not sure I'll even have a band to play with at that point.
So, my feeling is that I'm just done trying to pull teeth for this guy.
Now, as far as the other stuff, my first sullen inclination was to just quit. But I know that makes me look like the one causing drama, and I'm not interested in that. The band could find another bassist but the musical chemistry between the problem guy, the LS and myself has historically been great, and things would change a lot, in many ways, if I just leave. They would also change if he leaves, and I really don't want to turn it into a "him or me" situation.
My problem is that I have too much emotional investment in this band, because I've worked pretty hard to bring us a measure of success, and that's what I will struggle with if I let it go. But let it go, I must. So I've had to have a bit of a "come to Jesus" moment with myself this week, and I'm comfortable with the idea of backing off and letting them drive the bus. Do I think they'll step up? It's hard to say. I think the newest member would be happy to step up, but I also think she's inexperienced and the bus would likely start driving in reverse. But if that's what they want, then I'll reassess as to whether the direction they go is one I want to continue with when and if we get to that point.
Right now I just want to be the bass player. They aren't networked locally the way I am, but I don't think they understand what that brings to the table, and they probably need to see it for themselves. As far as investing more effort and energy, I'm just done.
My job at the University involved a lot of communications. If I'm a bad communicator that would be news to all the people I used to work for.
I do get verbose at times, because I want to make sure everyone has all the information they need before they start asking me questions. If people are too ADHD to read important info, that's not my problem.
The group text shows who has seen each text. It's not a matter of the guy not seeing them, nor is it a matter of him not being able to respond right away. An example of this is earlier this week. My schedule changed and the LS and I became available on our normal rehearsal day. This happened the day before that day. I immediately sent out a text to ask if they wanted to get together the following night. It's a simple yes or no.
Within two hours everyone had read the text and responded to me, except the one guy. He had read it, but didn't respond. At 2:00 the following afternoon, I'm getting texts from other members asking me if I've heard from the problem guy.
You know, I'm really tired of having to field those questions. I'm also tired of having to crawl up this guy's butt to beg him to answer me. So at 2:30 I texted to let them know that I had a headache (true) and was going to pull the plug on the proposed rehearsal.
A few days before that I sent out a text asking if they were all available for a date in January. One of my contacts had proposed a split-bill show that would have put us in front of a great crowd in our favorite club for a high-energy gig. Everyone else responded to say they were open, problem guy NEVER did, even though I saw that he had seen the question. He still hasn't responded to that. At this point, I'm pulling it off the table because I am not sure I'll even have a band to play with at that point.
So, my feeling is that I'm just done trying to pull teeth for this guy.
Now, as far as the other stuff, my first sullen inclination was to just quit. But I know that makes me look like the one causing drama, and I'm not interested in that. The band could find another bassist but the musical chemistry between the problem guy, the LS and myself has historically been great, and things would change a lot, in many ways, if I just leave. They would also change if he leaves, and I really don't want to turn it into a "him or me" situation.
My problem is that I have too much emotional investment in this band, because I've worked pretty hard to bring us a measure of success, and that's what I will struggle with if I let it go. But let it go, I must. So I've had to have a bit of a "come to Jesus" moment with myself this week, and I'm comfortable with the idea of backing off and letting them drive the bus. Do I think they'll step up? It's hard to say. I think the newest member would be happy to step up, but I also think she's inexperienced and the bus would likely start driving in reverse. But if that's what they want, then I'll reassess as to whether the direction they go is one I want to continue with when and if we get to that point.
Right now I just want to be the bass player. They aren't networked locally the way I am, but I don't think they understand what that brings to the table, and they probably need to see it for themselves. As far as investing more effort and energy, I'm just done.
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- Dec 21, 2007
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I have come to grips with myself as being “just the bass player”.
I don’t know the whole story. I have people in network (professionally) who are so contentious that I don’t even attempt to maintain a dialogue…I re-direct to other entities as a “buffer”. I make sure involved parties are aware as to why, though.
Riis
Do you think this guy has narcissistic tendencies? If so, that will influence how to handle the situation.
The strangest thing is that this guy comes across as the most drama-free, humble, lease problematic person you'll ever meet. This is passive with a capital P. Nobody would have imagined he'd be the one to cause trouble.
And that's also why I'm doubling down on my experience of "oh, I'm not doing that" as the most likely response. I think calling him on it will just make it worse.
And that's also why I'm doubling down on my experience of "oh, I'm not doing that" as the most likely response. I think calling him on it will just make it worse.
I was managing plants and had thousands of people reporting to me in all over the last 30 years so handing tough guys, BS, politics and weasels was part of the job and very easily dealt with, when you have the authority, but when it comes to bands, I back off and let the red flags announce themselves.
I call them out and they either respond positively or I am gone. Won't tolerate it. Don't get paid enough to deal with it. It's just not necessary and if it is important for them to promote their insecurity then they are the wrong person anyway. Band meeting. Demands for oneness or seeya. A split team cannot work.
I call them out and they either respond positively or I am gone. Won't tolerate it. Don't get paid enough to deal with it. It's just not necessary and if it is important for them to promote their insecurity then they are the wrong person anyway. Band meeting. Demands for oneness or seeya. A split team cannot work.
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I'm good with it in three other bands. This band has been a labor of love for the three core players over five years, and it's a bit different. But I'm done.
This is the thing that jolted me to my senses this week. Another band member said to me, "you know, this is really disrespectful." And it's true. I had that guy flagged in my mind as a humble, courteous, peace-loving guy. But his behavior is disrespectful, and it's time to acknowledge that it's a problem.
Another problem I have is that, whenever there's unpleasant stuff to be dealt with, it falls to me. If there's an awkward situation with the set list, I have to bring it up. If there's an issue with, say, a venue someone suggested not really being a good fit for us, I'm the gremlin that tosses that out there for them to consider. If someone wants us to play "Mustang Sally" I'm the one that has to explain that it's too hackneyed... Etc. Etc.
Nobody has my back. They wait for me to be the boogie man. So I really don't have a lot of faith that they'd do anything but stare at their shoes if I bring this up in a group meeting, even though they all privately ask me about it.
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I have no interest in playing a puppetmaster sort of game.
If you think this is still an issue worth addressing even though you've already handed over the reins, maybe you could ask him if you did something to put him off.
We all manage to offend or trigger someone unintentionally/unknowingly. When he explains it from his perspective, maybe you'll find that it's something understandable and for which you can make amends. Or maybe he reveals himself to be suffering from some combination of -isms and immaturity.
I know you've been stoked about this project for a long time. If there's a possibility of salvaging it with a simple question, maybe it's worth a shot.
We all manage to offend or trigger someone unintentionally/unknowingly. When he explains it from his perspective, maybe you'll find that it's something understandable and for which you can make amends. Or maybe he reveals himself to be suffering from some combination of -isms and immaturity.
I know you've been stoked about this project for a long time. If there's a possibility of salvaging it with a simple question, maybe it's worth a shot.
It's possible that beeing a woman might make things worse, but only in second, if already didn't like you.
It's not like if there is never passive aggressive behavior between mens.
It's very common.
Default thinking should be he just doesn't like you.
I have no idea how you can make things not worse, beside just ignoring him and avoiding getting mad, but this will make things worse on your side for sure, it would for me.
Can't you fire him ?
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Go with your gut. Stop wasting energy on this.
Who's the BL?
If someone is promoting a confrontation in some shape or form its going to come down to a parting of the ways.
It depends who is more valuable ..or percieved to be more valuable by the other people.
As it stands, from what has been mentioned, I think you'll force them to make a choice sooner rather than later, and it needs to come to that as I very much doubt this is repairable to any degree.
It depends who is more valuable ..or percieved to be more valuable by the other people.
As it stands, from what has been mentioned, I think you'll force them to make a choice sooner rather than later, and it needs to come to that as I very much doubt this is repairable to any degree.
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