Patitucci on a Sadowsky Playing Jamerson

[Nick Bassman]

Leaving aside personal preference and whether you like JP and/or Dave Weckl, I have to say I'm slightly baffled. That some posters, note I say some, can lay down "definitive" judgements on tone and timing based on a pretty cruddy Youtube copy with obvious sound quality and possible synching deficiencies. That allied to the probably sub optimal playback systems attached to most PCs make for an exercise in futility IMO.

Let's not even go down the "how many of us have been hired by Chick Corea, Wayne Shorter etc; ?" route

Happy New Year

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Leaving aside personal preference and whether you like JP and/or Dave Weckl, I have to say I'm slightly baffled. That some posters, note I say some, can lay down "definitive" judgements on tone and timing based on a pretty cruddy Youtube copy with obvious sound quality and possible synching deficiencies. That allied to the probably sub optimal playback systems attached to most PCs make for an exercise in futility IMO.

Let's not even go down the "how many of us have been hired by Chick Corea, Wayne Shorter etc; ?" route

Happy New Year

Nobody is debating whether or not JP or Weckl are a supremely gifted players. I just think their example of a Jamerson style Motown groove was weak. I also think that many inferior players could have done a better Jamerson imitation that what JP and Weckl did. Heck, they would probably do a better job now themselves.

 

[DWBass]

Leaving aside personal preference and whether you like JP and/or Dave Weckl, I have to say I'm slightly baffled. That some posters, note I say some, can lay down "definitive" judgements on tone and timing based on a pretty cruddy Youtube copy with obvious sound quality and possible synching deficiencies. That allied to the probably sub optimal playback systems attached to most PCs make for an exercise in futility IMO.

Let's not even go down the "how many of us have been hired by Chick Corea, Wayne Shorter etc; ?" route

Happy New Year

I don't know about you but I play A LOT of Motown on my gigs as well as growing up immersed in it so I consider myself pretty knowledgeable about the genre (in addition too my 35+years of playing). JP said it was a Motown groove and I'm saying it wasn't!

 

[Wilbyman]

This is kind of off topic, but I like this one:



John really "gets" Chick's half-whole sound, very neat to hear the two together again on this clip...

I like how Chick is comping all this bad-azz stuff but he looks like he's sitting in the audience

 

[bassrique]

This is kind of off topic, but I like this one:

 

[Nick Bassman]

I don't know about you but I play A LOT of Motown on my gigs as well as growing up immersed in it so I consider myself pretty knowledgeable about the genre (in addition too my 35+years of playing). JP said it was a Motown groove and I'm saying it wasn't!

Well, you might have noticed I didn't mention whether the groove demonstrated was as advertised nor did I criticise those who said it wasn't. My beef was with those who critiqued the tone and timing based on the rather poor YouTube clip.

I feel I can say what I did after my 35yrs of playing too

 

[DougD]

I don't know about you but I play A LOT of Motown on my gigs as well as growing up immersed in it so I consider myself pretty knowledgeable about the genre (in addition too my 35+years of playing). JP said it was a Motown groove and I'm saying it wasn't!

Actualy he said it was a simple Motown-ish type of groove He wasn't trying to cop the exact Motown feel. One thing i did notice tho, about half way through, he's trying to get the drummers attention to end the song and it seems like Dave wasn't paying attention, so he kept looping and nodding looping and nodding

 

[Phil Smith]

Leaving aside personal preference and whether you like JP and/or Dave Weckl, I have to say I'm slightly baffled. That some posters, note I say some, can lay down "definitive" judgements on tone and timing based on a pretty cruddy Youtube copy with obvious sound quality and possible synching deficiencies. That allied to the probably sub optimal playback systems attached to most PCs make for an exercise in futility IMO.

If it sounds weird it sounds weird whether it be audiophile equipment or a transistor radio, the booty shaking mojo just ain't there. The synching deficiencies in that video have nothing to do with the medium.

This is one of those come back to haunt you things like flubs on recordings that live on and on while you the player are trying to get as far away from as you possibly can.

 

[Tom7]

I realize I'm kind of resurrecting this thread, but I have this VHS as well, and I have coveted a Sadowsky ever since I heard Patitucci's.

This video shows John playing his own groove, and it more than works for me.

Does anyone know more about this specific bass? Was this the EMG era or are those Sadowsky pickups? Is that a rosewood fretboard? Is it an ash or alder body?

I would love to know so I could buy a Sadowsky with that bite.

I'm enjoying the conversation and links to youtube. I must be easy to please because I've liked all these Patitucci clips.

Again though...

Does anyone know anything about Patitucci's old Sadowsky?

Is that a rosewood fretboard? Is it an ash or alder body? Sadowsky pickups? Or could they be EMG or Bartolini?

 

[Hizzoner]

SITSOM does a better job of showing the motown sound interpreted by others ...but I think the JP vid is great at exposure to a wider world of music than I knew as a fairly sheltered teenager in the 80's..plus, I really like his tone on the video(though it is not a motown sounding tone) and his playing IS amazing

MB

 

[Nick Bassman]

If it sounds weird it sounds weird whether it be audiophile equipment or a transistor radio, the booty shaking mojo just ain't there. The synching deficiencies in that video have nothing to do with the medium.

This is one of those come back to haunt you things like flubs on recordings that live on and on while you the player are trying to get as far away from as you possibly can.

Sheesh, I didn't stick up for the groove or comment on the "mojo". I merely suggested that definitive judgments on tone and timing might be less than optimal given the poor quality of the posted video.

 

[Andrew Jones]

That clip simply doesn't convey.


But I like that Bach Prelude in G he does on that video.


Aj

 

[Mark Wilson]

The great Dave Weckl simply doesn't float everyone's boat. I have a couple of his cds and other than some work I've heard him do with Anthony Jackson, he just sounds way too mechanical to me. He has serious skills but serious skills aren't everything.


I can think of a bunch of drummers I'd rank up there with him, for different reasons, as far as what I'd want to listen to or play with.

That's my beef with Weckl.
He's too mechanical.



This is one of the few tunes I really dig his playing on.

 

[elBandito]

Youtube sound quality and video not syncing with audio has nothing to do with anything. James Jamerson clips on youtube sounds fine to me. Video being out of sync does not change the 'groove'. How is that even possible? Turn your screen off and just listen to the sound. It bears no resemblance to Jamerson style. After listening, search for jamerson groove and take a listen. It's still unmistakable Jamerson, even on crappy sound quality.

some, can lay down "definitive" judgements on tone and timing based on a pretty cruddy Youtube copy with obvious sound quality and possible synching deficiencies. That allied to the probably sub optimal playback systems attached to most PCs make for an exercise in futility IMO.

 

[elBandito]

Following that logic, if you listen to a jamerson clip on youtube, it wont have the same magic as listening on hi fi? Youtube sound quliaty isnt THAT bad. It's no excuse. How did people study music from listening to old vinyl, cassette tapes or 8 track?

Sheesh, I didn't stick up for the groove or comment on the "mojo". I merely suggested that definitive judgments on tone and timing might be less than optimal given the poor quality of the posted video.

 

[Nick Bassman]

Youtube sound quality and video not syncing with audio has nothing to do with anything. James Jamerson clips on youtube sounds fine to me. Video being out of sync does not change the 'groove'. How is that even possible? Turn your screen off and just listen to the sound. It bears no resemblance to Jamerson style. After listening, search for jamerson groove and take a listen. It's still unmistakable Jamerson, even on crappy sound quality.

OK for the final time, nowhere did I say that the Youtube quality would affect the groove. I merely suggested that to judge someone's bass tone from this clip was not optimal. Note I said TONE not mojo or groove. My comments are entirely toward that area NOT whether the groove was Motown or Jamerson like.

Now, how is that hard to understand ??

 

[Tom7]

OK for the final time, nowhere did I say that the Youtube quality would affect the groove. I merely suggested that to judge someone's bass tone from this clip was not optimal. Note I said TONE not mojo or groove. My comments are entirely toward that area NOT whether the groove was Motown or Jamerson like.

Now, how is that hard to understand ??

I got it!

Then again, I'm married to a Brit (born and raised in Bournemouth), so maybe I've got an edge on the other Yanks.

 

[elBandito]

Thats why I quoted you. Now you want to back out on your words?

OK for the final time, nowhere did I say that the Youtube quality would affect the groove.

 

[elBandito]

So, what are you exactly saying here then? You're implying, since the video quality isnt so good, you cant make proper judgment of the said video clip. Your reason for not being able to make proper evaluation is based on crappy youtube quality. Crappy quality or not, John pattitucci failed to deliver the Jamerson feel. So watching a jamerson clip on youtube would also result in losing that 'magic'. Your 35 years of playing experienece is irrelevant to logic. Video being out of sync has no effect on the sound clip, nor does bad sound quality have any effect on 'groove'. Unless the sound clip fluctuates in speed and volume. Again, youtube quality can't be much worse than casette, vhs or vinyl from the 80s.

Leaving aside personal preference and whether you like JP and/or Dave Weckl, I have to say I'm slightly baffled. That some posters, note I say some, can lay down "definitive" judgements on tone and timing based on a pretty cruddy Youtube copy with obvious sound quality and possible synching deficiencies. That allied to the probably sub optimal playback systems attached to most PCs make for an exercise in futility IMO.

You're implying a piece of music can only be appreciated if it's played on a hi fideliy system. Good music is still good, even on lo fi.

 

[Linkert]

His wiggle killed me six times!