yeah, uh-huh. i also believe that 9/11 was an inside job and the cia killed gary coleman because he knew too much.
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Paul Gray form Slipknot found dead
- Thread starter anyonefortennis
- Start date
keep trying to force your old opinion on us young 'uns
I wasn't going to jump in, but this struck me as funny. And I say this with no disrespect intended.
Many of us old farts have been there, done that and have the tour jacket. I am not in the medical field nor does one need to be to recall or witness the lives totally F'd up by drug use, abusive drug use and addiction.
You do not need to be a doctor to know drugs are addictive and destroy far more lives than some folks want to admit. The problem with young folks, then, now and probably forever is the "It won't happen to me" or "I can handle it" attitude. I watched friends die that had it all under control. We have all watched musicians die over and over again from drugs. You don't need to belong to Mensa to acknowledge this fact.
And many are not judging Paul and some are. Ya need to get over it. For whatever reason or circumstance drugs took another one. And it does not shock me one bit. You dance with the devil, sometimes he wins. Actually a lot of times he wins, and the loser either loses everything or dies, or both.
The facts are, Paul is dead. His wife is no longer able to be with him and his child will never know him. Pretty damned sad, pretty damned tragic and in my opinion pretty damned stupid.
Am I saying Paul is stupid? No. How could I, I never met the man. Do I think drugs are dangerous? Yup. But that is my opinion and I am entitled to it and I have stayed away from drugs. Well aside from being a beer and whiskey swilling young man. And I wish I had most of the money I drank in my bank account now. This does not make me smarter, more superior or better than anyone. But it does mean I can avoid a fate such as many of the thousands of entertainers that went bye bye far too soon and left a trail of sadness and destruction in their wake.
Hey Bill. I wasn't going to mention the fact that LPCs have WAY more experience in counseling and working with people on an emotional level than psychiatrists do, but it seemed like a waste of time considering the population I'd be preaching to. So, considering the audience, I giggled a little and went about my merry way.
At least you put down the IMO, and you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but drugs have done some wonderful things for human society.
I don't use psychotropic drugs anymore (still smoke cigarettes, in full disclosure), but to put a huge blanket on such an integral part of human history is, to put it nicely, silly.
Oh, and for the record, I would never advocate drug use to anyone else. That's their decision, not mine. All I can do is make my experiences known to those who ask.
not recreational drugs. now have i done my share? sure...i grew up in the 70's and lived in miami from 83-84
but drugs totally ruined the band i was in then, and i've seen a lot of people go down from them and become mere shells of their former selves. just remember keith richards is the exceptionand not the rule
Anyone who spends eight years in an American med school is probably not the best person to ask how "extremely sophisticated" the brain is. Med school here is four years, so anyone taking eight is probably doing other things to kill them sophisticated brains.
(This also tells me you did not go to med school. And that's fine. But don't then hold that against other people.)
I don't see what age has to do with the drug issue. I am 20 years old. Drugs are stupid and dangerous. You don't need to be old to learn from the mistakes of others. It took my brother 3 trips to jail for stealing, the last time from our own parents to get a fix, for him to learn. Even then he still has no job because he has no applicable skills due to him wasting his life on drugs. Anyone who says it makes you more creative and such are just trying to rationalize a destructive habit and bring others down with them.
"Integral part of human history". Yes, shamanic cultures certainly use, or don't use, psychotropic substances for religious and healing ceremonies.
Sorry deluge, I believe you are mistaken if you don't think your original post could be interpreted as an encouragement to consider trying the hard drugs that are being discussed here. Think again. IMO, of course.
a good part of the drug culture still has the mystique of the 60's era,though the drugs have shifted in effect from the mind expanding experiments of owsley,to the mind numbing addictiveness of opiates and cocaine....not recreational drugs. now have i done my share? sure...i grew up in the 70's and lived in miami from 83-84
and not the rule
it is no more than a colossal bummer for anyone involved,and has destroyed more lives than can be contemplated here.....want to see all you have worked for disappear?....coke is the answer
Since this thread had progressed (or regressed) into the typical "drug 'r bad/drugs make you creative" nonsense - remember; drugs are drugs. People who abuse drugs are drug abusers. The drug is still the drug and is neither good nor bad.
Some people can eat one bowl of ice cream and stop. Their metabolism burns it off and they go on their healthy, merry way. Others cannot stop after one bowl, their metabolism is not such that it burns it off quickly enough before it has a negative impact on their health and life. Is ice cream good or bad? No. It's just ice cream.
It's up to the people to know where the align in the spectrum and behave accordingly. Blanket statement like 'drugs are bad' or 'people who use drugs for recreation are idiots' avoids the reality and attempts to put blame where it doesn't belong. Insisting that abstinence is the only way to be good and pure is BS. Education, knowledge and a strong sense of personal responsibility and self discipline are the only way anything can be used or avoided effectively.
Anyone can abused anything and it can ultimately kill them and have serious repercussions throughout their families' and friends' lives.
Some people who choose to drink or use drugs for whatever 'reason' and who do so in a responsible fashion are no more idiots than people who simply abstain - for whatever reason. It's when they abuse things and choose to ignore their personal responsibility that makes them idiots. Or when the avoid things out of fear and ignorance. Sure, better safe than sorry - so if you don't know and don't want to learn the facts, definitely stay out of the water. Otherwise, get educated and make your choices from a position of knowing.
To those making all the blanket statements on either "side" - stop. You're not helping anyone's cause by attempting to claim there's one absolute answer to the question of drug use and it's benefit/detriment to human society.
Some people can eat one bowl of ice cream and stop. Their metabolism burns it off and they go on their healthy, merry way. Others cannot stop after one bowl, their metabolism is not such that it burns it off quickly enough before it has a negative impact on their health and life. Is ice cream good or bad? No. It's just ice cream.
It's up to the people to know where the align in the spectrum and behave accordingly. Blanket statement like 'drugs are bad' or 'people who use drugs for recreation are idiots' avoids the reality and attempts to put blame where it doesn't belong. Insisting that abstinence is the only way to be good and pure is BS. Education, knowledge and a strong sense of personal responsibility and self discipline are the only way anything can be used or avoided effectively.
Anyone can abused anything and it can ultimately kill them and have serious repercussions throughout their families' and friends' lives.
Some people who choose to drink or use drugs for whatever 'reason' and who do so in a responsible fashion are no more idiots than people who simply abstain - for whatever reason. It's when they abuse things and choose to ignore their personal responsibility that makes them idiots. Or when the avoid things out of fear and ignorance. Sure, better safe than sorry - so if you don't know and don't want to learn the facts, definitely stay out of the water. Otherwise, get educated and make your choices from a position of knowing.
To those making all the blanket statements on either "side" - stop. You're not helping anyone's cause by attempting to claim there's one absolute answer to the question of drug use and it's benefit/detriment to human society.
This is probably true for some drugs, including alcohol. But is there any "responsible" use of, for example, heroin?
SO learn to heroin correctly? No thanks, and good luck with that!
I would say let us know how it works for ya, but I'm sure there will be a thread, similar to this one, if that's the road your are on.
I won't entertain debate on specific substances. I don't use heroine, never have and never will and I am reasonably sure it's use would not make my life better in any way from my knowledge of it and by learning from the examples of others. Having knowledge prevents me from choosing to use it - not the prohibition of it.
However I don't know how it is used by others or if it does have a place in some people's lives where it's not abused or destructive or even a positive thing.
I do know that it's just what it is - neither good nor bad - just heroine. How you, I or anyone else incorporates it or not in their lives is their responsibility.
IMO, I don't see how it can be used without being abused from what I know about it, but that does not change the fact that it's neither good or bad.
And for the record, I do feel that people, knowing what almost everyone knows about heroine and who still choose to use it are not only acting irresponsibly, but are more than likely tempting fate - so in that way, I agree with what many have said in this thread about Paul's irresponsible behavior.
But I also fee the same way about people who, knowing what we all know about cigarette smoking and who choose to develop the good old pack-a-day habit only to end up with emphysema, C.O.P.D. become terminal and ultimately languish, sucking their families bank accounts dry as they linger then die from their poor choice.
How many of our heroes have died from that? Easily dozens if not hundreds or thousands more that those taken by heroine. Sure, they may live longer, but their deaths were equally their own doing and they left behind that same people. Does the fact that they lived to be 50 or 60 really matter? Their decision to do something they know would more than likely kill them, killed them.
But when the inevitable did happen, I also would not start a thread specifically about that person and use it to talk about how stupid and irresponsible I thought they were.
Is that what you got out of what I said?
If you have a real point to make, make it with your own words. Cherry picking phrases, using them out of context and making asinine comments like that is useless.
6jase5
Mammogram is down but I'm working manually
So I stepped away for a few days from this thread.
Good to see that the assumption was correct, the selfish famous bassist died of a lack of self control and with no regard for his family decided to screw up the one gift of life that he was given and vastly upset those around him. Nice work piglet.
Clap clap way to go genius, and yes, I'm judging and I don't care that you are dead. I'm thinking of all those lovely times you may (or may not, but let's be honest) have been cranked and driving around. I for one have a baby on the way, I don't take drugs (although some of them sound quite fun) nor drive like an idiot, I boosted my life insurance and I've been saving money just in case something happens to me.
That's what responsible people that aren't selfish drug addicted wastes of humanity (even the nice ones) do.
My aunt is on the alcoholic soon-to-be-gone list as well. You will think that she's nice too.
snort snort piggy (oh, you did that already, so sorry)
Love,
Fan of Darwinism
Good to see that the assumption was correct, the selfish famous bassist died of a lack of self control and with no regard for his family decided to screw up the one gift of life that he was given and vastly upset those around him. Nice work piglet.
Clap clap way to go genius, and yes, I'm judging and I don't care that you are dead. I'm thinking of all those lovely times you may (or may not, but let's be honest) have been cranked and driving around. I for one have a baby on the way, I don't take drugs (although some of them sound quite fun) nor drive like an idiot, I boosted my life insurance and I've been saving money just in case something happens to me.
That's what responsible people that aren't selfish drug addicted wastes of humanity (even the nice ones) do.
My aunt is on the alcoholic soon-to-be-gone list as well. You will think that she's nice too.
snort snort piggy (oh, you did that already, so sorry)
Love,
Fan of Darwinism
I do not get your aversion to blanket statements when they apply.
Fire is hot...blanket statement, and true, BTW.
Your comparison to alcohol is weak. Plenty of people can drink responsibly without ever having a problem. Others can, abuse the hell out of alcohol, yet never become alcoholics. An alcoholic can be on a downward spiral after his first drink. That's a genetic predisposition...a trigger waiting to be pulled, if you will.
Drugs, especially what we are discussing here(not Tylenol or chemotherapy) are a different ball game. Unlike alcohol, anyone using hard drugs can become addicted, easily.
For the same reason your comparison to eating ice cream is lame, and is just a rehash of the dying by drinking too much water argument made earlier.
How you want to live your life is your responsibility, as is mine, but I think what we are seeing here is that the excuses don't work anymore, and when someone dies of an OD, the responsibility is placed where it belongs...on the addict. And that scares the hell out of drug users because most of them work quiet hard at avoiding personal responsibility...the idea of possibly dying and accurately being blamed for it must be frightening to them. Yet, I, like others don't feel sorry in the least for them, just for the others that were unfortunate enough to care about them and have their lives turned upside down.
How was that? Did I follow your rules for posting correctly, oh leader?
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