Double Bass Peacock Blows off Costello...

[TroyK]

-Then why have you had so much trouble understanding what Gary Peacock is for 24 pages?

I don't. Quote me back to myself to make your point.

I do have trouble jumping on board with your posture about all of this. I've left Gary Peacock in tact all the way through, or at least attempted to. The thread got confusing more than once.

 

[Uncletoad]

Comercial pop music is a lot like politics, it takes very dark and shady moves to claw your way to the top.
Just as there are politicians I can respect more than others, same goes for pop musicians, but no one gets near the top with integrity intact.

This statement is just as overgeneralized as some of the statements about Peacock and Jarret others have made you've objected too.

I have met some very lofty pop stars over the years and most of them have not become "dark and shady". Overall the top of the pile that have long term careers are pretty nice people.

Yea some are quirky and weird but Peacock and Jarret aren't exactly the guy next door either.

 

[damonsmith]

Damon. Don't soften your language. This is what you said originally.

Are you now going to a "something I find more worthwhile than pop music" stance?

I'm really just trying to find a way to extend this thread by arguing semantics.

It means the same thing, I stand by it, I am softening my approach due to trying to be respectful to everyone here while standing by what I really feel.

I have met some very lofty pop stars over the years and most of them have not become "dark and shady". Overall the top of the pile that have long term careers are pretty nice people.

I mean dark and shady moves are generally made to get them where they are.
Often by Managers.
You know, payoffs and what have you. It is a nasty business.

 

[Uncletoad]

I mean dark and shady moves are generally made to get them where they are.
Often by Managers.
You know, payoffs and what have you. It is a nasty business.

Ah. I've never been lucky enough to have those kinds of problems.

 

[Marc Piane]

Damon. This thread was never really about GP and EC to me. It was about the attitude that there was some kind of artistic integrity (and intellectual superiority) that some guys have and others don't. Something about being true to yourself and true to your art and sacrific and not selling out etc, etc, etc.

We are all human. There are no planes of existence or intellectual blah, blah or whatever. Everybody's poop smells the same.

You can make great art out of anything. Look at Marcel Duchamp.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Everybody's poop smells the same.

Don't know if I can agree with that, but I don't think artistic integrity is to blame when one pile reeks worse than another...

 

[Marc Piane]

Don't know if I can agree with that, but I don't think artistic integrity is to blame when one pile reeks worse than another...

Must be the 1/2 Stilton Burger they serve at Goose Island here in Chicago. Whole roasted garlic cloves on top. Mmmm. Love it.

 

[Uncletoad]

Everybody's poop smells the same.

Being the King of Poo these days I have to say that 5 month old Vincent's poop does smell decidedly different than anything I've dealt.

 

[Uncletoad]

Must be the 1/2 Stilton Burger they serve at Goose Island here in Chicago. Whole roasted garlic cloves on top. Mmmm. Love it.

I may have you ship me one of those.

 

[Marc Piane]

I may have you ship me one of those.

The only time in my life that acid indigestion woke my up in the middle of the night.

And I'll do it again, and again. Outstanding.

 

[Marc Piane]

Being the King of Poo these days I have to say that 5 month old Vincent's poop does smell decidedly different than anything I've dealt.

I'm with you. I'm glad my youngest (2 y.o.) is past that point. Try an all dairy diet though. You too could have poo that smells like that.

 

[Uncletoad]

Must be the 1/2 Stilton Burger they serve at Goose Island here in Chicago. Whole roasted garlic cloves on top. Mmmm. Love it.

No really, I'm serious.

I had them ship me a box of Muffulettas from the Central Grocery in New Orleans last year.

Fantastic.

 

[damonsmith]

Well, for certain musicians artisic integrity is an primary focus over all other things. That is one separation point.
I think EC is probably true to himself and his personal value system, but I think he probably had different goals altogether.

 

[milomo]

Yeah, I was engaging in a little bit of rhetoric there. Of course it's about personal musical taste, and I certainly wouldn't want to suggest that anyone's taste is wrong.

I can tell, and my post was only made to point out what happens to all of us when we discuss things that we feel strongly about, or are meaningful to us. The "If you don't like that tune you just don't dig rock music" statement actually made me laugh out loud when I read it, because I've said the same thing about a million times, just about different records.

 

[TroyK]

Hey you guys remember back when we were trying to wrap this thing up before it it 20 pages?

 

[Damon Rondeau]

Being the King of Poo these days I have to say that 5 month old Vincent's poop does smell decidedly different than anything I've dealt.

UNC, I've been there, done that. As I know you are a man who has such a thing in his shop, maybe even his house, I have one word for you: respirator. Mine saved me many a wretched retching when I was changing apple juice diapers. The kid just thinks it's funny. Kills any smell whatsoever, though.

 

[Damon Rondeau]

I think EC is probably true to himself and his personal value system, but I think he probably had different goals altogether.

Dude, r u kidding? His aim is true.

 

[Marc Piane]

I'm all for artistic integrity. I try hard to be true to myself and my vision. As Damon pointed out, we each do things a certain way because we think it is the best way. I totally agree. I have a problem when the ideas of artistic integrity and intellectual superiority become synonymous. They are not.

Being true to your 'art' whatever it may be is fine but don't poo-poo someone else's.

Phil, say the word man. I'll hook you up. That burger is amazing.

Troy, I thought we were going for a record.

 

[Jeff Bonny]

I mean dark and shady moves are generally made to get them where they are.
Often by Managers.
You know, payoffs and what have you. It is a nasty business.

Are you simply speculating based on industry reputation, generalizing based on personal experience or do you know for a fact Costello got airplay and became a star because of payola? Are coming right out and painting him with that brush? "Artists" who tend to illustrate "talent" as a one word oxymoron tend not to last as long as Costello has despite all the payola any scumbag manager or A&R twit wants to throw into them...underhanded ambition is no substitute for real talent. Sure payola is a fact of the business but certainly not every successful artist compromised hugely or had money spent on him that was blatantly illegal. Most of the money that the big four (Universal, Sony BMG, EMI, and Warner) spent is on legitimate advertising. And to be honest I don't hear any more compromise in Costello's work than I do in Peacock's. I really dislike the value judgment you've implied through this whole thread that somehow Peacock is of more value as an artist than is Costello.

One very important difference between a politician and a music star is that very few (if any) politicians enter politics with artistic ideals or goals in mind and while some, maybe even a majority of music stars may bend (or even bend over) to court success I believe that for anyone who had any to begin with the desire to see out an artistic vision never goes away. There isn't nearly the amount of money at stake in the jazz world as there is for pop stars like Costello or U2 or even Diana Krall or Michael Bublé but you're dreaming if you don't think the same basic promotion format and practices are followed by management and record companies for jazz and pop artists alike. An artist's personal integrity cannot necessarily be judged by anything that was done by his management to promote him.

 

[damonsmith]

I'm all for artistic integrity. I try hard to be true to myself and my vision. As Damon pointed out, we each do things a certain way because we think it is the best way. I totally agree. I have a problem when the ideas of artistic integrity and intellectual superiority become synonymous. They are not.

Yes, but some music puts more value on intellectual content than others.
I am thinking of Xennakis' high math concepts, Stockhausen, Cecil Taylor, etc.
Others just want to play music eveyone will like, and some go to great lengths to not make it intelectual.
Just as some musics value virtuosity more than others.

I prefer a Xenakis Piece to a pop song in every way, content, intent, sound, texture, etc.
That is just me and what I value. I value musicians and artists who are
trying to push boundries of forms, virtuosity, sonic possibilties.
I prefer that to rock and pop songwriting regardless of how well crafted and witty it is.
Like I said it is personal. In my personal value system, Costello ranks far below Peacock, end of story.

It does not mean I think he should have his identity erased in some Stalineque way, I just don't get anything from what he does.