• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Penn State

#22
Steve said:
I heard all that and I'm from Penn State. I heard the rational.
I still want to know, If what happened at PSU is not justification for a multi-year total ban on that program, just exactly what DO you have to do?
Click to expand...

This is pretty much my take. Priorities at Penn State were so thoroughly upside down with regards to the football program that I question whether or not the penalties go far enough.

Penn State is supposed to be an educational institution with an athletic program, not a football institution with an educational program.

The players may transfer with no waiting period, so I do not feel they are being penalized that harshly, overall. The fine is equal to what the football program brought in annually to the school.

It is well documented that Joe Paterno ran that school and that his priorities, good and bad, were the school's priorities. That a COACH had that much power over an entire institution is just plain wrong in my view.

Vacating the wins is pretty meaningless as far as I'm concerned, since it doesn't hurt the school going forward. Those players still played those games, still won, and the fan that attended those games still have those experiences. What it does do, and I feel this is correct, is change Paterno's record.

That fact is, Paterno and the cowards in the school's administration turned a blind eye to a predator and enabled him to continue committing heinous crimes. The fervor of the fans encouraged them to do so.

Frankly, I think Penn St got off easy. This was an institutional failure and the institution needs to pay dearly for it.
 
#23
MJ5150 said:
I understand it started 14 years ago.

I would like to get your perspective since I may be a bit jaded from this side. What benefit is there to the children who were abused, and their families? What benefit is there overall to erasing the wins over 14 years? I'm trying to understand the intended purpose and benefit of vacating the wins. It does not compute in my mind. The rest does.
Click to expand...

The benefit is erasing of the culture that allowed this to happen.

What needs to happen is the Penn St. family at large needs to realize that they enabled this through deification of the football program.

The PSU community had (and still to some extent HAS) a codependent relationship with the football program.
 
#25
bassplayer1494 said:
Its not like they were gonna win a BCS title in the next 4 years anyhow xD.

They can focus on rebuilding their team and reforming their legacy. This punishment was necessary. Maybe they can come back from this hiccup( a BIG Hiccup i might add) and be better than before.
Click to expand...

As an academic institution, not just as a football team.
 
#27
Marial said:
...Vacating the wins is pretty meaningless as far as I'm concerned, since it doesn't hurt the school going forward. Those players still played those games, still won, and the fan that attended those games still have those experiences. What it does do, and I feel this is correct, is change Paterno's record...
Click to expand...

The memories of the players and fans who participated in those games remain intact; no one can erase them. But since maintaining the ability to compile those wins was so meaningful as to be the primary motivation behind the cover-up it seems altogether fitting and meaningful that the wins be vacated on the books.
 
#28
MJ5150 said:
Paterno's death is not a "penalty" in my mind. What I meant was the man is now dead, what is the point in penalizing someone dead?
Click to expand...

I think the message is pretty clear that the institution failed to exercise oversight, and therefore the institution is responsible. Over the past few weeks, it has become clear that Paterno knew a lot more than he originally admitted, and took no action. The institution was penalized, but vacating the wins means Paterno's record as a winning coach slides back to something like 12th.

I'm OK with both. Penn State is fined an amount equal to last year's football income, and Paterno's record is revised. (And his statue is removed to a "secure" location, future developments TBA.)

I was originally a Paterno defender - and a Graham Spanier defender - but the Freeh report makes is clear that both of them abdicated their responsibilities.

There is no good news in a situation like this.

aborgman said:
The benefit is erasing of the culture that allowed this to happen.

What needs to happen is the Penn St. family at large needs to realize that they enabled this through deification of the football program.

The PSU community had (and still to some extent HAS) a codependent relationship with the football program.
Click to expand...

I agree. The message is a warning intended to be heard by all colleges and universities.
 
#31
Unprofessional said:
So disappointed and dismayed with Joe Paterno. There are some things in this world that are just unforgiveable regardless of circumstance.
However, I am not the least bit surprised at the Penn State administrators. IMO, college administrators are world champions at avoiding accountability for anything. Let's see if any of them end up in jail.
Click to expand...

Well given that much punitive has been done, PSU was the one that commissioned the review and didn't not back away from the findings and is not going to appeal any of the NCAA stuff and they continue to look into the issue and scrub all the crud they find and will continue to do so, I find the ducking accountability allegation a little difficult to make.

The same thing that got that community into that mess, the obsessive importance of public appearance of honor and high moral character and all the other Pennsylvania-dutch, Anglo- saxon, victorian moral stiffness blah, blah, blah, is the same thing they will lean on to get, as much as is humanly possible, out of that mess.

They'll turn all that inward and on themselves and root out every speck of that nasty and kill it publicly while self flaggelating the entire time.

It's what they do in central Pennsylvania.

If they can't set the standard of decency, they will damnsure set the standard for taking their lumps accepting responsibility and cleaning up their mess.

You can expect the name to come off the library and everywhere else eventually.
 
#32
Removing his name from the library may be tricky. If I am not mistaken Paterno and his wife gave a very large donation to the library and were rewarded for their generous gift with the "naming". This was not associated with the football progarm.
 
#33
fenderhutz said:
So they took down the Joe Paterno statue at Penn State but kept the library named after him. I guess they left it as a good reminder to stay quiet while you are in there.


aaaaaaaand out.
Click to expand...

A most excellent post!


Steve said:
...You can expect the name to come off the library and everywhere else eventually.
Click to expand...

Someone will come along and donate $1.00 more than Paterno did, or at least enough to purchase a new sign & pay for the printers to print up a few new maps with the new name.


So what happens with the vacated wins? Does this mean that the records will state that the teams who lost those games (against PSU) are artificially listed as the winners? In the case of championships / post-season games, are they then listed as the winners? Or, is there no one listed as a winner?
 
#34
Sadly, I can envision several institutions that would trade most anything for a(nother) national championship in Football, and would cover up or do most anything to avoid what Penn State is going through right now.

I love NCAA Football. I am passionate about NCAA Football. I think the word FAN has just been taken to an extreme - FANatical enough to cover up the molestation of children in the name of the team. I don't think I'll call myself a football fan anymore.
 
#35
aborgman said:
The PSU community had (and still to some extent HAS) a codependent relationship with the football program.
Click to expand...

Just like all the other football factories around the country. It's how things are in the USA. People love their football, college and pro.

We'll see how State College and the surrounding communities survive financially with these sanctions. Something tells me they'll be just fine. There will still be 100,000+ fans in Beaver Stadium on Saturdays, the university will make their money.

This scandal has provided time for universities across the country to stop and evaluate their priorities and to be sure they aren't harboring any nasty secrets. But as soon as fall rolls around and the turnstiles start clicking at the stadium, it will be back to business as usual. Sadly.

I sure hope an accounting is made on how that $60,000,000 is distributed. Emmert said none of it can go to university sponsored programs, which just seems stupid in itself as well.

-Mike
 
#36
My lil' ol' take--

One of the major selling points for recruiting and fundraising for Penn State was the integrity of Paterno, the program and the institution. Presumably the people involved in the cover up felt recruiting and fundraising would be adversely affected if the allegations about Sandusky came to light. Perhaps so. Personally I think it would have reinforced their image of integrity if they exposed it immediately.

But they didn't. So all those wins came from players and money that were recruited based on the integrity of the institution while the institution was protecting a child molester. So I have no problem with the vacated wins.

Because the coverup occurred in order to protect the program and institution both should be affected by punitive measures and they should be severe. The football program should have been suspended for a year. This would have sent a powerful message to others when they are faced with similar decisions.

Yes, people that didn't do anything wrong will suffer. That's what happens when you don't do the right thing. Ask the kids.
 
#39
Went to many PSU games in the 70's my sister went to school there. I feel for the kids hurt and for the students who graduated, like my sister , who can no longer say with pride they are PSU graduates. That said Joe pa and PSU get sanctioned , the coach of the N.O. Saints sanctioned, baseball players brought before congressional hearings ect. When do we hear about the guys on Wall Street going to prison
 
#40
The NCAA isn't punishing those involved. None of them are at Penn State. Therefore, they are essentially punishing the innocent. The NCAA wants this to never happen again. But, this will not stop a pedophile from raping children. It will only make them try harder to not get caught and perhaps do something even more vile (murder?) to keep from getting caught. Here's an idea: Round up those involved in the cover up and charge them with being an accessory after the fact.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back