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"People Don't Like Making Music"
- Thread starter Bunk McNulty
- Start date
Could AI create an album on par with Dark Side Of The Moon or Wish You Were Here, or 2112 or Moving Pictures 
Stolen.The 21st Century is NOT turning out like I expected
Only if it has those albums in its database to copy from to begin with. Calling the current crop of generative software "artificial intelligence" is misleading at best, and a downright fraud at worst. Those thing are not "intelligent", they don't understand what their output is and they cannot create any output if they don't have it in their database to begin with, so they cannot create anything new, just variation on a theme.Could AI create an album on par with Dark Side Of The Moon or Wish You Were Here, or 2112 or Moving Pictures
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
I find less and less enjoyment from music myself, and some of that is due to the technology required/expected. I will be an early adopter of AI-assisted production software--assuming I still have enough interest at that time. I actually anticipate a market for that type of AI application.
Another factor that takes the joy out of music is the loss of demand for live music due to the loss of venues, and the continued low pay available for live music. Part of that is apparently due to aggressive pursuit of costly licensing fees by BMI/ASCAP.
What needs to be considered is the fact that BMI/ASCAP do not accept AI generated music for licensing. So I assume venues will start running AI apps to generate music and avoid paying any licensing fees at all, saving maybe a couple thousand dollars a year, depending on venue size.
And if people also turn to copyright-free AI music instead of streaming copyrighted music, then the music business goes the way of the buggy whip business.
Comparing this change to the onset of the automobile? Careful there. The current ratio of car to horse ownership by US households is 92% to 2%.
For sure the traditional ways of making music will continue as a hobby/niche activity. Maybe the demand for non-AI music will continue, but AI music is pretty advanced at this point. How will it sound in 10 years? And will AI be open source, or will it be moved behind paywalls? So many factors. Only time will tell.
The only thing I can add is that if AI "music" ends up sounding anything like AI narration that a lot YouTube videos have nowadays, then the so-called "music" won't last very long. Read the comments of practically any video featuring AI narration; 95% of people find that it sounds stupid and/or creepy.
It reminds me of the comment we got from a clueless family member when we revealed that we'd just adopted a puppy:
"Why would you want to do that? You've got to walk them, pet them, play with them..."
There is a name for people who don't like the process of making music. They're called "non-musicians". That's OK. I'm a non-surfer; a non-painter, a non-writer, a non-equestrian, and many other non-participants. I would suggest that if you have been calling yourself a musician but you define the joy you get from music as based on how many paying gigs you get in a year, you may actually be a non-musician who's learned how to operate the equipment.
"Why would you want to do that? You've got to walk them, pet them, play with them..."
There is a name for people who don't like the process of making music. They're called "non-musicians". That's OK. I'm a non-surfer; a non-painter, a non-writer, a non-equestrian, and many other non-participants. I would suggest that if you have been calling yourself a musician but you define the joy you get from music as based on how many paying gigs you get in a year, you may actually be a non-musician who's learned how to operate the equipment.
“[T]he majority of people don’t enjoy the majority of the time they spend making music.”
That’s an empirical claim. Its veracity could be measured. Obviously, most people here on TalkBass think he’s wrong—hardly surprising. I’m sure he and his investors think he’s right. Until somebody actually measures it, though, this argument (on both sides) is just hot air. How about some actual data?
That’s an empirical claim. Its veracity could be measured. Obviously, most people here on TalkBass think he’s wrong—hardly surprising. I’m sure he and his investors think he’s right. Until somebody actually measures it, though, this argument (on both sides) is just hot air. How about some actual data?
In TB Dream Land, the earth is filled with master musicians who only create music for the sheer joy of the act itself, with no other agenda and seeking no reward.
In the real world, everyone owns an instrument; few can play them. Fewer still can actually make music with them.
How many times have you heard someone say "I wish I could play guitar"? No, they don't really wish they could, or they would. They won't, though, because they don't enjoy it. It's a simple fact; the majority of people don't enjoy putting in the work to become a musician. It doesn't take an Evil CEO who embodies the Devil himself to point that out.
Some of you folks are taking this way too seriously. Who cares what some dude said that you don't like? People say stupid things. Get over it and go play your bass (cause we all know you're more interested in making an internet hissy-fit than actually making music).
In the real world, everyone owns an instrument; few can play them. Fewer still can actually make music with them.
How many times have you heard someone say "I wish I could play guitar"? No, they don't really wish they could, or they would. They won't, though, because they don't enjoy it. It's a simple fact; the majority of people don't enjoy putting in the work to become a musician. It doesn't take an Evil CEO who embodies the Devil himself to point that out.
Some of you folks are taking this way too seriously. Who cares what some dude said that you don't like? People say stupid things. Get over it and go play your bass (cause we all know you're more interested in making an internet hissy-fit than actually making music).
I started doing "score" like music using Native Instruments libraries and Spitfire Audio Orchestral and a trio of Korg synths (Modwave, WaveState and Opsix ) that are incredible sound design and lend themselves to "score" and ambient type music. It is a lot of work and is quite an investment. Although honestly you can probably do a lot just using Logic X and using the free libraries they offer.
It is definitely not just 1-4-5 progression and needs a lot of thought and restraint (to not overload things sonically). I enjoy the process and would rather do it myself.
It is definitely not just 1-4-5 progression and needs a lot of thought and restraint (to not overload things sonically). I enjoy the process and would rather do it myself.
JazznFunk
Supporting Member
A couple of points here:
'Aggressive pursuit' of licensing fees by BMI/ASCAP is kind of a thing still, and rightly demonized if the rep trying to get money out of a place is pushy about it, but honestly it's something that live performers shouldn't see as a detriment. Here's the deal: when you play in a venue, you are supposed to - in a perfect world - submit the setlist you played to the PRO who handles the rights for the cover song(s) you may have played in said venue, or someone responsible is supposed to do it. Also, if you are a songwriter and have registered *your* works with a PRO - then YOU should submit the songs you played because guess what.... you're owed performance royalties by the venue for having performed your music (and others' music) in their venue! Spots who don't want to pay to license music performances don't want to participate in performance royalty collection, and thus they don't support you getting paid your due royalties.
The only true way around it is for an unlicensed venue to only hire original musicians, playing original music (registered or not) and for the artist to have in writing that they are not performing cover music, that they grant a waiver or temporary license to the venue to perform royalty-free, and to provide proof that you are only playing YOUR original music.
In the end, the reality is the same - AI music has the potential to upend what little income stream is already left for live musicians in legit venues.
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I don't see anyone besides school children being forced to play music. I'd say it was a mixed bag in the classroom -- lots of kids get dumped into band or chorus because it fits their schedules, IME -- but elsewhere, amateur musicians are taking part willingly. It seems unlikely they'd be signing up for lessons and working on music for no pay if they were not enjoying it. There's an interesting study here about attitudes toward music participation among amateurs vs professions.
FWIW, I find it difficult to work directly with amateur musicians at times. Rehearsals can sometimes seem like they're just run-throughs with little to no problem solving to get a better performance. But it varies considerably from organization to organization. Amateur musical theater where I live has some many incredibly dedicated folks who work very hard - and enjoy themselves tremendously! One of the reasons I love playing in the pit is because of their enthusiasm and desire to put on their best performance.
