PETITION - Firmware Update to the Zoom B3

[oerk]

I can understand their statement about not enough DSP power for six effects. For example, the B3 has a wet/dry control almost everywhere (every effect plus total plus global), whereas the G3 does not. This needs to be calculated and adds up in overall processing power used. And they don't want people complaining that their signal cuts out when using two effects and four amp sims simultaneously.

What I really, really would want, is for Zoom to release an update that turns autosaving off. I've more than once accidentally destroyed a carefully calibrated live patch. And yes, backup/restore per USB works, but it's an unnecessary hassle.

 

[tauzero]

While the B3 might not be able to handle the 6 units of a G3, it must surely be able to cope with the 4 units of an MS60B as they use the same processor. One extra unit as an always-on (or at least generally-on) device would be handy, and presumably they've already done most of the work needed as the sideways scrolling is a feaure on the G3 (just needs the maximum length set to 4 from 6) and the actual effects would each be a code module.

 

[jumblemind]

Think of it more as...if you don't agree with the professional experts, don't jump to posting how it's because they don't know as much as you do about their product/industry.

Or conversely, if you don't work in Zoom's market research department with access to the actual data, don't jump to posting how Zoom's market research is flawless data created by experts.

 

[jumblemind]

I have had many clients who cannot understand why the classic rock morning show they love so much is not the perfect place to advertise, even tho their target demographic is 17 year old girls.

And yet they manage to be successful businesses.

 

[JimmyThunder]

Nobody said their data was flawless anywhere in this thread. However, the fact that their research was conducted by experts is almost definitely true and a very safe assumption.

And to your second point, yes they manage to be a successful business, because when they lack knowledge in a particular area, they hire experts to guide them. That's how success works, learn from people that have more experience and knowledge than you....even if...ESPECIALLY IF...they are telling you things that do not match your current beliefs.

You may want to read that last sentence again. I'm outta here, I've got PAYING clients to attend to.

 

[ga_edwards]

I can understand their statement about not enough DSP power for six effects. For example, the B3 has a wet/dry control almost everywhere (every effect plus total plus global), whereas the G3 does not. This needs to be calculated and adds up in overall processing power used. And they don't want people complaining that their signal cuts out when using two effects and four amp sims simultaneously.

Then I'd love to find out what's under the hood and different in the new B1on. That unit can handle 5 effects at once. And it's a much cheaper lower end unit.

 

[Swift713]

If I understand correctly what's not under the hood of the new model is the looper, drum machine, xlr, usb interface, as well as some of the effects and models.

 

[jumblemind]

I think he means what processor and memory is the "engine" under the hood. What is the hardware that allows the B1on to string five effects together without issue while the B3 can only do three.

 

[Mo'Phat]

I think he means what processor and memory is the "engine" under the hood. What is the hardware that allows the B1on to string five effects together without issue while the B3 can only do three.

Exactly…which wasn't explained whatsoever by the Zoom email.

 

[Seryna]

I work as a customer service rep four years (and counting) and I just can tell BS when I see/hear one. This is prolly made up by a customer rep who needs to answer your ticket.

 

[Swift713]

Oh, I thought it was the same processor like MS-60.

 

[TitaniumRx]

The B3,Ms-60b,Ms-100BT and Ms-70cdr have the ZFX IV.For the B1on we don't know.Not mentioned anywhere.Let's wait for the first demo or review to see.

 

[tauzero]

Regardless of what the B1on may or may not contain, I think that this sentence from the response

"Therefore more than 4 simultaneous effects causes frequent “DSP FULL” notice."

does imply that they have modded the firmware and experimented with it, and would be able to supply a 4-effect version.

 

[Mo'Phat]

A few days ago, I decided to inquire to Zoom-USA to get their insight into the Zoom-Japan customer service response. I haven't heard back yet, but thought you should know I sent the message. Here's what I sent to Jesse Nisenbaum ([email protected]) :

Jesse -

You may be aware that I received an ‘official’ response from Zoom Japan. If not, I’ve forwarded the message, below.

Discussing this with other users, this message falls flat on a few issues, and wanted to know if you would be willing to provide some insight or whether the user’s expectations are way off-base.

The first statement regarding DSP power consumption prohibits the use of more than three effects. However, the new Zoom B1on and B1Xon are capable of 5 simultaneous effects, and the MS-60B is capable of 4. From what I know of these product, they use the same processor as the B3, with the same frequency response and dynamic range. Reading through the specifications, the G3 and G3X also have the same processor with same frequency response and dynamic range – but those have been updated to allow two effects per slot for a total of six simultaneous effects.

I understand that certain combinations of effects can produce a DSP FULL notice, but Zoom could issue a statement or warning letting users know of this DSP restriction. Instead, they are not giving users the option. The G3 was given a firmware update to allow 2 simultaneous effects per slot – does the G3 ever suffer from DSP FULL notices if three amp sims or DSP-heavy effects are used?

I also understand market research – however, it was Zoom which created a multi-effects processor offering myriad effects. So, it would follow that their market research did, in fact, indicate that bass players prefer a very wide range of effects and amp sims. Those users that do have a number of effects in their arsenal would prefer ready-access to them.

For example – an amp sim and a compressor, which would be considered ‘always on’, only leaves room for one more effect before having to change patches. Within a song, this change is difficult. However, allowing two effects per slot would allow the ‘always on’ effects to be in the background, and allow three selectable effects without requiring patch changes. I don’t consider three selectable effects a large array.

We are up to 184 signatures today. I understand that we do not represent a vast profit base for Zoom, and we are not asking for a world-changing update – essentially we are only asking for the same update offered to guitarists two years ago.

It would make my two B3’s usable on stage.

If there is anything you can do, please let me know.

Thanks again for your attention.

Paul Moffat
Zoom Customer

I know I said I was done, and that someone with more passion could take over...oh well. I really want this update to happen, both so I can use my gear, and for the principle of the thing.

 

[jumblemind]

No shame in that game. On your note about the Full DSP notice, the MS-60b warns in the manual that it can happen if you stack certain effects in a four-slot patch and recommends only using three effects total when using a processor-intensive effect like an amp sim. In other words, Full DSP isn't enough to thwart allowing 4 effects on the 60b.

Of course, you're still up against the numbers thing, but persistence can be powerful. The "Kindly Brontosaurus", as outlined in a recent Slate article.

 

[PauBass]

A few days ago, I decided to inquire to Zoom-USA to get their insight into the Zoom-Japan customer service response. I haven't heard back yet, but thought you should know I sent the message. Here's what I sent to Jesse Nisenbaum ([email protected]) :



I know I said I was done, and that someone with more passion could take over...oh well. I really want this update to happen, both so I can use my gear, and for the principle of the thing.

Well done and thanks for taking the time and going ahead with the petition
.

No shame in that game. On your note about the Full DSP notice, the MS-60b warns in the manual that it can happen if you stack certain effects in a four-slot patch and recommends only using three effects total when using a processor-intensive effect like an amp sim. In other words, Full DSP isn't enough to thwart allowing 4 effects on the 60b.

Of course, you're still up against the numbers thing, but persistence can be powerful. The "Kindly Brontosaurus", as outlined in a recent Slate article.

Perhaps they could update and add that warning on the B3? We not all use the most processor-intensive sim and effects on the Zoom.

 

[Woodsbass]

Nobody said their data was flawless anywhere in this thread. However, the fact that their research was conducted by experts is almost definitely true and a very safe assumption.

And to your second point, yes they manage to be a successful business, because when they lack knowledge in a particular area, they hire experts to guide them. That's how success works, learn from people that have more experience and knowledge than you....even if...ESPECIALLY IF...they are telling you things that do not match your current beliefs.

You may want to read that last sentence again. I'm outta here, I've got PAYING clients to attend to.

Ha! Buddy got mad because everyone didn't agree with him. Oh well.

 

[oerk]

*snip*

That was very well written. Thank you.

Perhaps they could update and add that warning on the B3? We not all use the most processor-intensive sim and effects on the Zoom.

The warning's already there in the manual, in case one stacks too many amp sims.

 

[PauBass]

That was very well written. Thank you.



The warning's already there in the manual, in case one stacks too many amp sims.

So all they need to do is update it then

 

[ga_edwards]

I notice the new B1on has just had a firmware update to add new effects. Seeing as the MS-60b is still part of their current line up, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it might see a similar update soon.