Unjustified violence towards ANYBODY should never be tolerated.
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Phil Spector, Dead at 81
- Thread starter wmhill
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I never cared for Spector basses...
Goons with guns and paid thugs should never be tolerated and I guess there's a good reason we don't go around "naked"
Good. Not really a fan of his production work, in the grand scheme of things. I think he is highly overrated as a producer. And I have pretty negative feelings about gun-pullin', woman-abusing murderers too.
As a funny note, though, the "Pyrenees Castle," in which he murdered Lana Clarkson, was one street over and a few houses up from my high school (and early adult) girlfriend of seven years. More times that I can count, and often in the dead of night/very early morning, I climbed onto the estate's wall and walked the top of it to cut from one street over to the next, saving me about a half mile walk taking the streets around. The estate was heavily overgrown, and had vicious guard dogs outside, which followed me, barking violently as I walked along the top of the wall. But at that time, it was not owned by Spector. Later on, we saw that it was for sale, and that it eventually sold. We had no idea it was sold to Phil Spector. We just knew that whoever bought it seriously cleared out the overgrowth, and the dogs were no longer there. The murder occurred some years later, after she and I were no longer together. It was only then that we found out he was the "new" owner.
Article about the "castle" from when it was put up for sale a few years ago:
Phil Spector’s infamous Alhambra hilltop estate asks $5.5 million
As a funny note, though, the "Pyrenees Castle," in which he murdered Lana Clarkson, was one street over and a few houses up from my high school (and early adult) girlfriend of seven years. More times that I can count, and often in the dead of night/very early morning, I climbed onto the estate's wall and walked the top of it to cut from one street over to the next, saving me about a half mile walk taking the streets around. The estate was heavily overgrown, and had vicious guard dogs outside, which followed me, barking violently as I walked along the top of the wall. But at that time, it was not owned by Spector. Later on, we saw that it was for sale, and that it eventually sold. We had no idea it was sold to Phil Spector. We just knew that whoever bought it seriously cleared out the overgrowth, and the dogs were no longer there. The murder occurred some years later, after she and I were no longer together. It was only then that we found out he was the "new" owner.
Article about the "castle" from when it was put up for sale a few years ago:
Phil Spector’s infamous Alhambra hilltop estate asks $5.5 million
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He was a very disturbed individual. And ultimately, a murderer.
I spent time around him here and there and it was very uncomfortable to be around him. I will just leave it there.
He was a musical genius/poneer, sure, but that does not give him a pass. We can ceelbrate his work, but not the man.
I spent time around him here and there and it was very uncomfortable to be around him. I will just leave it there.
He was a musical genius/poneer, sure, but that does not give him a pass. We can ceelbrate his work, but not the man.
devnulljp
Supporting Member
I am confident you do not mean to condone any of the below behavior through your choice of avatar. Presumably you admire Pryor as a comic and social critic and satirist.
Nor do I mean to directly conflate the behaviors of Pryor and Spector, or to suggest one justifies the other.
My only contention is that many creatives are deeply troubled, and often sociopathic. As my friend Mike The Junkie used to say, "Art is not always nice."
Richard Pryor was angry. It was 1972, and Pryor was in the south of France shooting a movie called Hit! with Billy Dee Williams. He brought his girlfriend Patricia Heitman along and, at one point during the trip, she allegedly walked in on Pryor in bed with a hooker. According to biographer Scott Saul, Pryor then invited Patricia to join in the action. When she declined, Pryor flew into a rage, expressing his displeasure by beating her, tearing her clothes off, and throwing her out of the room. Patricia, not one to be cowed, got back at him later by sprinkling rat poison in his socks and underwear.
It was hardly the first time Pryor had mistreated a woman (he once beat his first wife for serving him potatoes he didn’t like), and Patricia’s rat poison stunt would hardly deter him from it going forward. Back in LA, he would again rip off Patricia’s clothes and toss her out onto the street, naked. While she was locked out, desperate for clothing and shelter, he burned her coat in the fireplace. Later in life, Pryor confessed to beating women on air to Barbara Walters and explained himself thusly:
“They pissed me off. I'm sorry to say that. I know emotionally inside of me, because I was weak. That's really the reason. I was weak.”
Why All the Comedy Men Are So Awful
Pryor admits to a history of hitting his women at the six-minute mark.
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Correct. To establish whether a suspected someone is a psychopath (formerly called "sociopath"), said someone must be assessed. The most widely used test today is Robert Hare's Psychopathy Checklist PCL–R™: 2nd Edition.
I heard stories about Spector threatening people with weapons going back to the late 1990’s when I was doing music production classes in college
People like to talk trash after you're gone, huMAN natURE I suppose.
Reminded me of how people slagged me off when I was 'on vacation', so I revisited that & crossed a few more names off my holiday-card list.
People are nasty to each other enough, & hadn't Spector served his time?
Reminded me of how people slagged me off when I was 'on vacation', so I revisited that & crossed a few more names off my holiday-card list.
People are nasty to each other enough, & hadn't Spector served his time?
Sociopath. There is a fine line between genius and madness. But, this producer pulled guns on people time after time, yet incidents were swept under the rug because of his legendary status. Then came the night he not only pulled the gun, but also pulled the trigger and killed somebody. Wall of what now? Mental illness is no joke. Seek some help- especially if you're rich enough to buy gold plated lawn furniture.
Doug Parent
Supporting Member
My old girlfriend (Devra Robitaille) who grew up near London relayed to me some rather harrying stories of being summoned to Phil Spectors flat whence upon knocking his front door he produced a pistol and aimed it straight at her face when the door swung open. I don't doubt her account, she was sworn in and testified in court in his trial. She also did backing vocals on Lennons first solo album (he was very drunk) and also with the Stones, as well as well touring with Michale Oldfield (Tubular Bells) and managed Dark Horse Records ( George Harrison) The girl got around back in the days and had stories to tell.
"Honesty" regarding history, for me, requires separating the appreciation of a person's contributions from the celebration of the person themself.
Should a person's human qualities be so deficient that they cause broad or deep suffering via their own preventable transgressions, then that should factor into their "legacy" -- and, I would think would be obvious, tarnish it. To fail to take this into account would itself be the dishonest act.
Saying that we don't need to celebrate Phil Spector's life upon his passing doesn't mean that his artistic achievements must all be automatically renounced. However, I'll continue to measure a man primarily by his human qualities or lack thereof, and less so by any artistic or otherwise practical output that he may have had.
Doing so is admittedly more complicated when a person's flaws are only revealed after their art has been produced and celebrated, but most of us possess the nuance that renders us capable of doing so.
Musically, few things sound as good on my early 60s single dash speaker AM radio as his stuff.
To excuse the wall of sound ignores the context of the time.
To excuse the wall of sound ignores the context of the time.
I wrote but struck from an earlier post that although I had not ever heard "wah wah" on AM radio, my re-listening today made me think that the record would have likely sounded fabulous even on a transistor radio, the way the sound is "stacked." It is not so much "wall of sound" as "walls of sound," there is an incredible depth to the production, which despite all the resonances still takes a back seat to George's well articulated and carved-out and projected vocal.
Lennon loved to mix on small portable radio size speakers, I've read.
Early 70s were the peak of transistor radios, weren't they?
Saying that someone "served their time" is a reference to a legal status, and not a character absolution. Fulfilling a sentence doesn't give people a pass on their human deficiencies.
Not a fan. This was not an otherwise nice guy with a tragic flaw, he truly enjoyed inflicting pain and fear. As for the wall of sound; well, kudos, I guess, but he innovated something I myself never much cared for. Songs generally are hits because they’re good songs, not because of the production. Some are hits in spite of the production. I’m sure I’m in the minority but that’s kinda how I saw the guy.
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