Pick Downstrokes vs. Down/Up---Can You Tell?

[callofcthulhu]

Yes but that would reinforce the point he's making.

Not really. Based on his reveal post the point he's actually trying to make is that it's not worth the effort to learn/perform one way if you're already comfortable with/prefer the other. Going out of your way to put MORE effort into a performance when you've already mastered both techniques at the level required to do that is not representative of any real world scenario.

 

[JimmyM]

Not really. Based on his reveal post the point he's actually trying to make is that it's not worth the effort to learn/perform one way if you're already comfortable with/prefer the other. Going out of your way to put MORE effort into a performance when you've already mastered both techniques at the level required to do that is not representative of any real world scenario.

No, that wasn't the point I was trying to make. The point I was trying to make is that down/up is a perfectly acceptable sub for down only if you work at making your upstrokes as strong as your downs.

 

[JohnDL]

Not really. Based on his reveal post the point he's actually trying to make is that it's not worth the effort to learn/perform one way if you're already comfortable with/prefer the other. Going out of your way to put MORE effort into a performance when you've already mastered both techniques at the level required to do that is not representative of any real world scenario.

No he's not saying "it's not worth it"..... He's saying that when you get older it will become increasingly difficult to maintain fast downstroke picking and if you work on it you can get that great driveing downstroke sound using alternating down and up strokes without the crippling arm tension and possible injury. Personally I believe he has a point and this is great advice. If you have a superfast downstroke picking technique, that's great good for you. However if you're struggling this could be a very useful bit of advice.

 

[Tigerpig]

Don't like the sound of all downstrokes. Controlled up and down grooves better.

 

[Stranger Danger]

B is definitely all downstrokes but I only think that because A sounded like up-down to me.

 

[lomo]

I didn't listen and don't care, but am simply posting to offer Jimmy kudos for expending so much energy in the interest of curiosity/ science

 

[JimmyM]

I didn't listen and don't care, but am simply posting to offer Jimmy kudos for expending so much energy in the interest of curiosity/ science

I'll take it! But it wasn't much energy at all. Already had everything set up from recording bass for our band's new album, a couple takes of each, a few minutes making and uploading MP3's, done. The hard part was remembering my Soundcloud login!

 

[Rib 13]

I say that's a load of crap, as I believe that if you want your down/up picking to sound more consistent, you need to practice till you can't tell the difference, and you'll make it happen if you practice it enough.

Im not sure why this is even a bone of contention....granted, having the ability to rotate the two strategies: sometimes having that slightly less attack of an upstroke is kinda what ya want....like a hi hat

btw, 'A' sounds alternating up-n-down to me...B sounds like both: all down strokes in most spots and a mixture of all down and one or two arbitrary ups on 'Black Velvet' lol

 

[Droopy_TX]

I agree. With a well practiced player (such as you examples) you probably could not tell the difference between downstrokes and upstrokes.

I picked B as all downstrokes. Primarily based on timing, not on tone.

Yeah, I think the tonal quality is close enough to be a wash in a mix.
The only telling factor is the rhythmic fluidity.

 

[UntitledUser]

In this Offspring's song, I think that the intro is in full up/down picking, while when the guitar kicks in the riff seems to be played all in downstrokes.

 

[JimmyM]

Im not sure why this is even a bone of contention....granted, having the ability to rotate the two strategies: sometimes having that slightly less attack of an upstroke is kinda what ya want....like a hi hat

btw, 'A' sounds alternating up-n-down to me...B sounds like both: all down strokes in most spots and a mixture of all down and one or two arbitrary ups on 'Black Velvet' lol

Nope, all downs in that clip of Black Velvet, and strict alternation in the other, meaning, I'd start those ending triplet arpeggios with a downstroke, come back up for an up, then last one was on a down.

 

[sotua]

I can hear a slightly different transient every other note in the A track. Thus, I would think A is up/down and B is down/down.

However, that difference would be completely carrots under a full band mix. Not enough to stress about. If your up and down strokes are VERY noticeably different, it's a sign you need to practice more your pick technique as you are not striking the string on the same angle and force on both directions.

 

[Rib 13]

Nope, all downs in that clip of Black Velvet, and strict alternation in the other, meaning, I'd start those ending triplet arpeggios with a downstroke, come back up for an up, then last one was on a down.

it doesnt matter really: its under a microscope on this page...nobody would know which one in a mix which I think is your point...... "A" is smoother, tho

 

[glocke1]

B is the downstrokes...I could tell within 5 seconds.

 

[callofcthulhu]

No, that wasn't the point I was trying to make. The point I was trying to make is that down/up is a perfectly acceptable sub for down only if you work at making your upstrokes as strong as your downs.

So the poll results reveal that you've got more work to do?

insert relevant smilie face here

 

[Koshchei]

So this has been an ongoing controversy on Talkbass for a while now. People on here, especially those who play rock styles, say that downstrokes with a pick always sound different and more consistent than strict down/up. I say that's a load of crap, as I believe that if you want your down/up picking to sound more consistent, you need to practice till you can't tell the difference, and you'll make it happen if you practice it enough. I also consider straight downpicking at medium tempos and faster to be very detrimental to the health of your picking hand. I can't do it longer than 30 seconds at a time before my hand starts to feel like it's going to fall off. Best I can do with all downstrokes is a walking jazz line with everything hitting on the beat, and even those get challenging when the tempo picks up. Maybe when I was 20 or 30 I could do it. Wish I still could. It certainly looks much cooler onstage. But since 40 came and went, those days are long over.

And still, people argue with me about it, and dare I say, some people who should know better. Folks, you can do anything with practice. That's all it takes. If you can do upstrokes at all, you can do it. And if you can't do upstrokes, time to learn them before you need hand and wrist surgery.

Or maybe I've got my head up my butt and you guys are right. Maybe you really CAN tell. Welp, here's your chance to prove me wrong (or right). I just cut two tracks, one all downstrokes, one all down/up. All you have to do is pick which track is all downstrokes. Your options are A, B and carrots, meaning you can't tell the difference. If a far greater number of people pick the right one, then I'll stop saying it's possible. But it's got to be a pretty wide margin, otherwise I'll think everyone's just flipping a coin, and I shall continue waving the down/up flag. Or pick as it were.

TECH NOTES:

---Signal Path---

Hammersmith PJ with EMG Geezer PJ's, P on full, J off, tone knob up all the way, newish Dunlop Super Bright Nickel rounds, played with Dunlop Max Grip 1.5 mm, into a Tech 21 VT Deluxe set dead clean and flat just to eliminate those tweeter frequencies I hate, into an A Designs REDDI, a Fast Track C400 interface, and Cakewalk. Absolutely no effects were used, and that includes compression.

Played a short bit of 3 popular songs, "Blitzkrieg Bop" by the Ramones, "Shoot To Thrill" by AC/DC, and "Black Velvet" by Allanah Myles. Don't know what possessed me to play that last one, but too late to change it now.

Anyway, I'll give it up to 3 days before I post results, but I may post them after a couple days depending on how many votes we get. I'm looking forward to everyone's comments. Good luck!

You can definitely get your alternate/hybrid picking to sound the same as just downstrokes, but you need to be conscious of the following:

1) What angle are you hitting the string at? Are you hitting it at the same angle on both up and downstrokes?
2) How much force are you hitting the string with? Is it the same on both up and downstrokes?
3) Where are you hitting the string with your pick? Is it the same?

Then just practice, practice, practice.

 

[2F/2F]

What matters is if you and the band are happy with it.

You don't say!

 

[BAG]

So while most of you were right that you could tell my downstrokes from my down/ups, I say big deal The difference isn't big enough to warrant possible surgery over your measley little punk rock song. Unless you pay quad scale. Then I'll think about it.

Don't be upset Jimmy. While there is a discernible difference I very much believe that it shows up and down strokes sounds better.

What would have possibly been a better way to prove your point would be to record a couple of bars of quarter or eighth notes of just one note played up and down and then just down. I think then it would be almost impossible to tell the difference.

 

[JimmyM]

So the poll results reveal that you've got more work to do?

insert relevant smilie face here

Why you...

No, I have zero work to do according to comments on here.

 

[Bubble]

I'll have to do a scan on that one then report later.