Yes. The riff here is not played robotically, a couple of times there is only a twangy on the final one, a couple other times there is a more gradual opening effect in the last two/three, like when a drummer open a hi-hat when measure is ending (or something like this).
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Pick Downstrokes vs. Down/Up---Can You Tell?
- Thread starter JimmyM
- Start date
Yes. The riff here is not played robotically, a couple of times there is only a twangy on the final one, a couple other times there is a more gradual opening effect in the last two/three, like when a drummer open a hi-hat when measure is ending (or something like this).
I don't do gotcha polls. I didn't even do more than a couple takes on each because I didn't want it to be a gotcha poll. I wanted to present myself accurately.
Yes, there was a time I could do all downstrokes very fast and never have pain. Then right around when I hit 40, it all changed. I had to learn a completely new style of pick playing that Carol Kaye uses to keep from having pain. So if you don't have pain, consider yourself either lucky or young enough to where it doesn't matter.
FWIW, I play in a band that does a lot of garage and punk covers. We've been together 11 years now.
The first few years, I used a pick, and most of the songs called for all downstrokes. So I did it, and got monstrously good at it (yes, I will pat my own back here).
However, I have always been primarily a fingers player, and I finally got sick of the pick – too much hassle to always remember to bring the right one, etc. I have been using my fingers for the same songs since then, and it's fine.
I use various combinations of finger plucking technique. One finger. Two fingers (normal). Two fingers as a paddle. Three fingers. Three fingers as a paddle. Whole hand as a paddle. Thumb down and fingers up (kind of like slapping and pulling, but really more like classical guitar technique). Lo and behold, I prefer it, it still sounds monstrous, and nobody has EVER mentioned to me that I use my fingers as opposed to a pick.
This begs another interesting question. If you can equalize tone as well as possible, do you even need a pick?
Also FWIW, I still bust out a pick just for fun ("old time's sake"), maybe one gig every few years. I had to do it recently when I got my American Performer Mustang Bass. The stock ultra light .095" rounds were calling for it before I trashed them and installed the D-Tuna .111" rounds (tuned standard).
The first few years, I used a pick, and most of the songs called for all downstrokes. So I did it, and got monstrously good at it (yes, I will pat my own back here).
However, I have always been primarily a fingers player, and I finally got sick of the pick – too much hassle to always remember to bring the right one, etc. I have been using my fingers for the same songs since then, and it's fine.
I use various combinations of finger plucking technique. One finger. Two fingers (normal). Two fingers as a paddle. Three fingers. Three fingers as a paddle. Whole hand as a paddle. Thumb down and fingers up (kind of like slapping and pulling, but really more like classical guitar technique). Lo and behold, I prefer it, it still sounds monstrous, and nobody has EVER mentioned to me that I use my fingers as opposed to a pick.
This begs another interesting question. If you can equalize tone as well as possible, do you even need a pick?
Also FWIW, I still bust out a pick just for fun ("old time's sake"), maybe one gig every few years. I had to do it recently when I got my American Performer Mustang Bass. The stock ultra light .095" rounds were calling for it before I trashed them and installed the D-Tuna .111" rounds (tuned standard).
Last edited:
I once saw Blue Oyster Cult with Kasim Sulton playing bass, and he used fingers on most of the show, occasionally using a pick for a brief section. But their original bass player Joe Bouchard used a pick on everything, and I thought all the songs sounded way better with Joe's pick attack, which was fairly prominent. Kasim was great, but fingers didn't sound like Blue Oyster Cult to me.
So yeah, I do believe you need a pick in certain applications. Certainly you can get the job done with fingers, but I've never been able to EQ my sound and make it sound like I'm using a pick.
Does it means we won't have to wait all day to sign for a used pick on the day it will get shipped?
Edit: do you still want my home address for the shipping at least?
No. I'm going to put it into a bottle, throw it into the ocean, and float it to you.
I feel that this is certainly the more important point. As a player who spends a lot of time in the palm-muted-metal world, I likely never will agree that it is possible for alternate picking to sound exactly as good as downpicking in all applications -- although, by the same token, I also don't believe that downpicking can sound exactly as good as alternate picking in all applications. However, to me that is a very different issue than whether alternative picking can sound *good enough* to be a valid substitute if downpicking is causing someone to suffer injuries. Playing slightly "less good" forever is certainly preferable to playing slightly "better" and then flaming out or at least suffering chronic pain.
No, because the tonal spectrum is only a small part of what makes a pick sound like a pick. The primary thing is the attack.
In fact, the attack is what we identify most instruments and sounds with. If you take away the attack, a note played on a bass can sound very much the same as a note of the same pitch played on a guitar, or a piano, or even a horn. So much so that they often lose their identity without the initial attack.
Tell me when you'll do it, I'll leave home maybe a week before the expected DOA since I'm about 1,000 miles from the shore of the Atlantic and I wouldn't want to miss it. Please make sure to write TO: FrenchBassQC on it, I wouldn't want to take someone's else...
thing is - pick technique REQUIRES you to be able to be consistent sounding without getting tired and be able to play everything you need to play.
It's easier (for me) to be consistent in all downs, but for speed and for changing strings (particularly a guitar thing, but still applies here) you need to be able to do up down picking well, specifically when reaching for a second string even if that string is a higher string (pitch-wise) but not on an up beat (so up pick on a traditionally down-picked beat).
So basically, we need to be able to do it all pretty darn well.
LoL
update: this is also one advantage to playing with fingers - all of my fingers sound the same, more or less, and I can switch it up as I need to based on muscle and skin fatigue.
maybe that concept works for picking, too...
It's easier (for me) to be consistent in all downs, but for speed and for changing strings (particularly a guitar thing, but still applies here) you need to be able to do up down picking well, specifically when reaching for a second string even if that string is a higher string (pitch-wise) but not on an up beat (so up pick on a traditionally down-picked beat).
So basically, we need to be able to do it all pretty darn well.
LoL
update: this is also one advantage to playing with fingers - all of my fingers sound the same, more or less, and I can switch it up as I need to based on muscle and skin fatigue.
maybe that concept works for picking, too...
I actually thought the very, very last riff was more “consistent” on the downstroke-only version and it actually had me second guessing my vote for a bit. I think the difference in tone actually was noticeable, but only because the tracks were isolated. More upper-midrange with the all downstrokes and more treble on the initial attack as well. Less “blooming” of the notes.
I find upstrokes, if done properly with as little pick area touching the string as possible and a bit of flesh from the index finger coming in contact with the string actually gets somewhat close to fingerstyle, if played closer to the neck than the bridge. It has that slow-ish attack, “blooming” note kinda thing.
I find upstrokes, if done properly with as little pick area touching the string as possible and a bit of flesh from the index finger coming in contact with the string actually gets somewhat close to fingerstyle, if played closer to the neck than the bridge. It has that slow-ish attack, “blooming” note kinda thing.
I'm gonna break with the crowd here, and go out on a limb and say "A" is the downstrokes. B has a slightly smoother, less labored feel. I was one of the people saying I thought I could tell the difference. They're different enough that a person could make up reasons for one sample being one and the other sample being the other.
Not different enough to make me switch to all downstrokes, though.
[EDIT] And I'm wrong! They don't sound identical, though. I agree that no producer would try to get you to switch up.
Not different enough to make me switch to all downstrokes, though.
[EDIT] And I'm wrong! They don't sound identical, though. I agree that no producer would try to get you to switch up.
Last edited:
FWIW, I agree about the string snap you get off a pick. But I do think that fingers can be "better" for "punk" than a pick, on many occasions, and you can still get plenty of bite and treble with them. Not the same as a pick, but a reasonable substitute most of the time. Can be faster (unless you are trilling the pick a la Dick Dale), can give you more precise control, can be less tiring. And I think fingers can more easily do a better job of getting a dead consistent attack than can up/down picking. We play some pretty fast and hard stuff, and I found it to be a tonal and endurance improvement finally switching to fingers. But my bass tone is more Motown/Wobble than what many people think of as a stereotypically punk tone.
