Pick Downstrokes vs. Down/Up---Can You Tell?

[JimmyM]

I think it doesn't make a darn difference in a mix from the crowds point of view. I dare any of you to find ANYONE in a crowd that is not a musician and even musicians that aren't looking that can tell in the middle of a song that you are picking all downstrokes or alternating. And lets not forget that the CROWD is what matters the most.

It's funny we spend so much time wrapped up in nuances that won't even get heard.

Actually, what I think and what my band members think is way more important to me than what the crowd thinks. Nuances DO get heard and perceived, even if the crowd can't exactly pick them up. Otherwise we could all play $50 practice amps and be fine.

 

[Tom Bomb]

… you'll make it happen

This is true. No two ways about it

 

[JimmyM]

That Blitzkrieg Bop line is played wrong though.

Number one, who cares? I'm not in the Ramones and I've never had to play Blitzkrieg Bop in my life. Second, I just listened to it and it's close enough.

 

[AboutSweetSue]

 

[andruca]

I think it all comes down to what groove you're trying to produce. I even start the 1 in each bar upstroke when I'm playing fast snare oriented HC punk. Otherwise it feels and sounds clumsy, like trying to play skating guitar along.



Here's also a bass reference track playing along to my drummer. You'd probably be able to tell up from downstrokes if you hear me play. The thing is with proper groove you shouldn't even care.

 

[MDBass]

Well it's been my experience that in polls like this, once a clear favorite breaks out with such a wide margin, the gap never closes significantly. At this moment, B is leading with 69.4% of the vote. So I'm declaring this poll over, but before I give the results, I'd like to say one thing...

I HATE YOU! I HATE YOU ALL!

B is all downstrokes.

Man, I listened to those tracks several times before I posted them, tried to picture myself playing the downstroke track down and up and vice versa, and I was buying into both of them that way. And you know what? I still do. I truly believe in my heart of hearts that if I were cutting a punk rock song for a top producer, and I did a track of each and the producer couldn't see me play, said producer would tell me to quit wasting my time with such trivial nonsense and cut it the way that's most comfortable to me. Which, of course, would certainly be down/up that's most comfortable to me, and I guess some of you picked up on it. And I'll tell you, the reason these samples were so short was because if I went much longer, I'd be in a lot of pain as opposed to the mere discomfort I was feeling by the end of them. So if they sound more choppy and not as flowing as some of you pointed out, trying to will myself from having pain was the most likely reason.

So while most of you were right that you could tell my downstrokes from my down/ups, I say big deal The difference isn't big enough to warrant possible surgery over your measley little punk rock song. Unless you pay quad scale. Then I'll think about it.

Definitely not worth surgery, no doubt about that.

I will say, alternate picking when down-picking would be “better” is certainly passable live.

It often is not in the studio though: I was literally just hired last month to re-track a double album’s worth of rock tracks because the producer didn’t like the feel of the originals that were all alternate picked.

Thanks for taking the time to do this test and prove my point

 

[zubrycky]

I'll listen to the tracks later.

In the meantime, I'll leave my two cents. As a pick and finger player I see a similarity between playing pickstyle with downstrokes only and playing with only one finger (a la James Jamerson). To me, both techniques (included on my bag of tricks) are a great tool to achieve evenness because in both cases all the notes are made with only one group of muscles.

 

[JimmyM]

Here's a funny story...I used to work with Freddy "Boom Boom" Cannon, and he used to insist that when I used a pick, I should play all downstrokes because it sounds "heavier." So when he was looking at me I'd switch to downstrokes, and as soon as he turned his back to me, I'd go right back to alternate picking. Never once said a word about it.

 

[zubrycky]

I'll listen to the tracks later.

In the meantime, I'll leave my two cents. As a pick and finger player I see a similarity between playing pickstyle with downstrokes only and playing with only one finger (a la James Jamerson). To me, both techniques (included on my bag of tricks) are a great tool to achieve evenness because in both cases all the notes are made with only one group of muscles.

Oh, I forgot to say one thing: As someone who can play or with only one finger or only with downstrokes I wouldn't advice anyone to play only with these techniques because they're physically demanding. I suggest these techniques as a supplement, something to be used when needed.

I like to mix these techniques with more conventional ones, depending of the musical situation I'm in.

 

[Frankie Fender]

I'll be a dick and say that I could hear a difference in the tracks and was right. Does it matter? No. When I use a pick I alternate between downs and up/downs as I feel the need or see fit. Perhaps that is why I don't feel any tension/pain, I mix it up.

I agree that playing all downstrokes looks cooler to the audience and alternating just makes you look like a musician.

 

[Ric5]

 

[IamGroot]

i dont know. If this has been mentioned yet, but James Brown required all downstrokes. And would fine bassists that didnt.

 

[UntitledUser]

Never tried it. I tend to not go by the bridge too much, though, since there's less tension on the strings between the pickup and neck.

Ok, I recorded a brief file on the fly (I'm not very good at recording, but did my best)

It's made keeping only the left finger pressed on the same fret (so no fret change here, it's a 1fret-riff).
Although the note here is always the same, a slight variation in the sound happens while moving to the bridge, specially the last note hitted very near to the saddle that "twangs"(while distorting also) is very noticeable.
All in downstrokes.

I think that it is an useful "effect" (or technique, don't know what is)

here the mp3:

 

[Pilgrim]

I think the question is (1) whether the AUDIENCE can tell, and (2) if they care.

I incline to the belief that the answer to both is No.

Personally, I can't pick worth a hoot and would be happy to have this problem. I actually do better playing with upstrokes, because they travel the same direction that my fingers do when I play finger style. Guitarists seem to find this odd.

 

[Ric5]

 

[dr doofie]

I could tell the difference in less than 5 seconds without even going from A to B and back. I listened to a few seconds of each one, A first, and then B.

That said, I only even checked out the thread because of the claim you made in the other thread about how you didn't believe anyone could tell the difference.

There's not a huge difference though.

My ear is nowhere near that focused; I listened to it over and over . But the difference is there. I think downstroke playing is much more upfront and essential with guitar playing; Johnny Ramone’s style simply can’t be replicated without all downstrokes... maybe cause it’s chords?

 

[2F/2F]

Through crappy laptop speakers, A instantly sounded like "floppy picking" (as we call it in my band), at least to my ear. I could hear it immediately in the rhythm, and not so obviously in the tone (but could definitely hear it in the tone).

Listening to B only confirmed this to my ear.

That said, I expect that this could also somehow be a "gotcha" poll, and that both are picked the same way, just controlled differently...to prove the point.

There's no reason to use just one or just the other. They inherently sound different, and feel different to play, so use the one that works best. Yes, you can control both so that they sound more similar. But they inherently sound different, and it's mainly about rhythmic feel.

As for physical pain, injury, etc., downstrokes only has never been an issue for me, even at snappy tempos. It's just harder to do, not more injurious. You have to actually be good at it, and not a lot of people are. OTOH, I don't know how to slap and pull at all, while others who would fall apart playing all downstrokes are masters of it. If I tried to do it at a high level of speed and intensity, I would probably feel like I was going to injure myself too!

 

[dr doofie]

A is up and down
B all down strokes....sorry I was late to the party

I was too
I thought I was somebody til I saw I was like last

 

[waveman]

I didn't see all the posts, but I didn't even have to listen. I could tell by looking at the wave pattern on the sound file. I did listen, and A is definitely up and down strokes. I can tell even more on guitar recordings

 

[JimmyM]

Ok, I recorded a brief file on the fly (I'm not very good at recording, but did my best)

It's made keeping only the left finger pressed on the same fret (so no fret change here, it's a 1fret-riff).
Although the note here is always the same, a slight variation in the sound happens while moving to the bridge, specially the last note hitted very near to the saddle that "twangs"(while distorting also) is very noticeable.
All in downstrokes.

I think that it is an useful "effect" (or technique, don't know what is)

here the mp3:

Interesting...did give that last note a little extra twang, didn't it?

Personally, I can't pick worth a hoot and would be happy to have this problem. I actually do better playing with upstrokes, because they travel the same direction that my fingers do when I play finger style. Guitarists seem to find this odd.

You are not alone. Will Lee holds a pick against his two fingers and uses only upstrokes. I once asked him about that, and he says he does it because it feels more natural to him being mostly a fingers player, and says he doesn't necessarily recommend it but it works for him. I've tried it and I find it impossible, but I started on guitar so I already had a frame of reference.