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Play for free, huh? Not cool!

The notion that you deserve to get paid for your work, apparently.

I think Bob is touching on something that is very important here.....the word “work.”

For many folks, playing in a band is their “work.” It’s a job. It’s employment. It’s the way they make money. In that scenario, I agree that they should be paid for working, just like any other form of employment.

For other folks (like me for example), playing in a band is purely a fun thing to do as a hobby. It’s not their “work”, it’s not a job, it’s not employment, and it’s not their way of making money. And it is NEVER viewed as work. It’s viewed as a playful thing to do in their spare time. They do it purely for the love of playing music, and they have no interest in getting paid for enjoying their hobby. Certainly, schlepping the gear is not the most enjoyable part of the hobby, and some folks feel that the schlep constitutes work and therefore they should get paid. But there are other folks (like me) who consider the schlep just part of the hobby because it results in the joy of playing music in a band, and therefore they don’t care about the schlep.

So for some of us, playing music is “work”, and for some of us, playing music is the polar opposite of “work.”

Some of the posts in this thread hit on the brutal (and perhaps not very nice sounding) truth that if a gigging band (that relies on band income) feels threatened by those who play for free, then those gigging bands need to up their game to increase their attractiveness to venue owners. The other brutal (and perhaps not very nice sounding) truth that has been stated elsewhere in this thread is, if making money is the goal, then the self-responsibility of career choice decision making has to be considered.

Regardless of what is stated in this thread or any other thread, I know one thing is true: I will continue to do what I have done for the past 35 years, which is, play music purely for the joy of it because this hobby makes me happy, and I will never care about getting paid to enjoy my hobby. I would NEVER want playing music to turn into work! Eww!!! I guess, in some eyes, that makes me an idiotic slut! :laugh: And that’s okay with me, because at least I’m a *happy* idiotic slut! :)

Sacto pretty well describes it. The core of it is that music is not like any other business or profession. You'll not see anyone going out and hanging drywall or doing other people's taxes just for the pure joy of doing it. Many folks play music for the fun of it and will do it without regard to making any money. In that environment, thinking you have a right to get paid for playing, is entitlement. It goes against reality, especially if you don't do anything to distinguish yourself from the play for free crowd.
 
So... it’s not ok to just want to play regardless of monetary compensation?
Apparently not, if one were to take TB's word for gospel. Personally, I think if anybody is butthurt over a band doing whatever they think is in their own best interests, that speaks volumes about their own state of affairs in the industry.

Of course, the issue of devaluation of the craft is a real thing but imo, to demonize the creators of this ad for their "get-up-and-go" is ridiculous at best, and really really sad at worst.
 
I worked my ass off as a lawyer for 30 years, put my kids through college, paid my mortgage and became financially secure--SO THAT I COULD ENJOY MY HOBBY OF PLAYING MUSIC. Along the way I didn't gripe that every year thousands more eager young punks were passing the bar and entering the legal field, competing for my clients and existing business.

My band gets paid for gigs, records and tours, but I don't give a crap whether I make a cent as long as I'm having fun. People don't come to our shows or buy our merch because I--and my lead guitarist--are lawyers. We get booked because our music is excellent. If you can't make a living as a musician either find another job or get a lot better.

Here! Here! :thumbsup:
 
Playing for a living does not equal not leaving the house for less than several hundred dollars.

:D
You're probably correct. My point of reference...a good friend of mine plays for a living. He teaches guitar/bass full-time, and operates a 9-piece wedding/events band that plays $3-5K gigs most weekends as well as smaller pick-up and fill-in gigs. Being the BL, he spends as much time coordinating the gig as he does performing it. He can't afford to leave the house for less than a several hundred dollars. He doesn't just sit home and mope about bands like me who play for $400 -- he works hard and books better gigs. I admire his passion, but man, it's a tough lifestyle.
 
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To invoke George Costanza, "You know, we're living in a society!"
Yeah sure, people can do what they want, but actions have consequences and this type of thing does consistently hurt music communities. Even if you are a hobbyist, having the privilege of being able to work for free is not something to treat lightly, as you can inadvertently take a job out from under someone.

Seems like a lot of people don't know a lot about how people go about supporting themselves as musicians. Gigging is a secondary income for me, but I have many friends who support themselves entirely on small-time gigs like bars and events. They honestly do really well for themselves. And I've read several posts in here suggesting that if you are relying on bar gigs, then it is your fault when scabs bring down your income. Or that these types of gigs are 'just for hobbyists' now. Sort of disappointed how out of touch some people are with actual music communities, such that they form weird misconceptions like this that lead them to treat other people's careers as trivial. Can't tell you how off putting it is to find the old "You play music for a living? Get a REAL job!" trope in a forum for musicians.
 
I know where they are located. There is nothing to worry about for the most part... Unless Bruce Hornsby sees them and gives them a job.
It’s a peaceful, uneventful area... imo. I can see why they are doing it though... I would call it a music “sampler” marketing maneuver.
 
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not so fast! i've done that before to great advantage and success:

"we will be one of your top bands/draws! we have the 'stuff' and we will put that on the line = we'll play the first trip for nothing just to show you. and when you book us back = it will be for what we're worth/asking! a win/win potential with little-to-no risk for you!"

never had anything but a happy ending! and we raised the bar for everyone! it's possible,* just sayin'. :D


* it works better if you're really good at what you do!

Basically, an audition but just at an actual gig......IF the band is good at what they do, this is just outside the box thinking, which I'm all for......it's a little ironic how music is supposed to be a creative art but many folks in the industry just don't think outside the box
 
Red Bull used to get a couple of cute girls to drive their little Red Bull car around and give away free cans of the stuff. They targeted places like Guitar Center (when I used to work there), skate shops, surf shops, etc... in an effort to build up a following with the "cool" people.

It's a business strategy called "loss leading"; you give away some product in hopes of creating brand loyalists.

I don't see that what the Craigslist band is doing is much different.
 
It's a business strategy called "loss leading"; you give away some product in hopes of creating brand loyalists.

in a nutshell yeah, but there is a possible loophole here -- Depending on the venue, clientelle, amount of folks in the door, how well the band is received, and how charismatic the front person is (bonus if female), the band can continually announce how "we are playing for free" and "help us out a little, OK?" and pass around a tipjar or hat periodically........you may end up making more than what the club books for
 
I'm interested in the categorization of making music as work or play. I love to play; but I consider what I do--entertaining people and helping bars sell booze--to be work. Because it is. I do not go out at 7 pm and get home at 3 am thinking "gee, ain't this great"?

As far as the money angle goes, either you've got a good thing to sell or you don't. I do not feel threatened by bands that play for free or play for $300. They are not part of my world. When I see a new band of younger players and think they've got something, I support them. Oddly enough, the compliment is often returned: They'll show up at one of my band's gigs. And life goes on. If you want to play for free, then that's what you should do. If you want to make money, you've got to get your act together and be better than the other guys.
 
I have no experience with all this, but it reminds me of something I learned when I was a "territory manager" (salesman). When you give a customer something for free, you are telling him what its worth is. Free samples tend to get stuck under the counter and ignored. Sell him the product with a money-back guarantee. And if you want to give something away, that's what personalized calendars and pens are for. Maybe this applies, maybe not. Just thinking out loud.
 
I have no experience with all this, but it reminds me of something I learned when I was a "territory manager" (salesman). When you give a customer something for free, you are telling him what its worth is. Free samples tend to get stuck under the counter and ignored. Sell him the product with a money-back guarantee. And if you want to give something away, that's what personalized calendars and pens are for. Maybe this applies, maybe not. Just thinking out loud.

For tangible products, yeah.....but is a music performance a tangible product?
Not a rebuttal - I'm just pondering/thinking out loud :)
 
Can you imagine if there was a forum for dairy farmers—-TalkMilk.com—- and they all got together and posted on a thread about what they want to charge for milk? And ostracized the farmers who charged less?

Yeah, that’s called price fixing, and it’s illegal.

Come on guys. It’s a market. Move on. Be better than the competition.

If a milk producer was giving his product away to stores, you can bet other dairy companies would be pissed. Price fixing is totally different.

Nice try, though.
 

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