For tangible products, yeah.....but is a music performance a tangible product?
Not a rebuttal - I'm just pondering/thinking out loud
It's a service, and a service is a product
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Play for free, huh? Not cool!
- Thread starter DWBass
- Start date
It's a service, and a service is a product
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
I'm sure there are websites for that...
Seriously, if it is a hobby for you, stay in your garage and play. Don't #_-&$# it up for those who don't just do it as a hobby.
Or, I could tell them to get a real job. Bartending pays pretty well and the hours are the same, no set up / tear down.
I don't do free gigs, but I understand why people would do them. If you're really worried about being beaten out by people that are willing to do something for free, you really need to find another job because you're not in a viable field. And seriously, up your game and get out of the bars. Take the training wheels off. Move to Nashville and tour.
And, in reality, whether we play for free or we charge $500 / night, we're still making it such that it is not a viable occupation. I think you're a lawyer. You have your bills covered by your day job, as do I. I don't need for gigs to pay for my health care and retirement and mortgage. It's all just a few extra bucks that rarely covers anything significant. The market won't support the wages that would need to be paid to musicians to make it a viable occupation. That's why most "musicians" are really teachers by day, either in schools or private lessons, and they gig at night. The gigs are primarily to give credit to their teaching status for their students. Likely that 90% of their income comes from lessons. Nobody is living off bar gig money unless they have a trust fund, a rich girlfriend or military retirement benefits.
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I don't know if this is true. It was probably something I read here years ago.
Band offers a set for free and two more sets at the full rate. They set up and kill it. Bar is full and pumping. The bar doesn't think the band is worth paying so they go to pack up. Not sure what happened after that.
Band offers a set for free and two more sets at the full rate. They set up and kill it. Bar is full and pumping. The bar doesn't think the band is worth paying so they go to pack up. Not sure what happened after that.
Why don’t you tell us how you REALLY feel?
This thread has been rather enlightening... and extremely disheartening.
Something about that live audience is worth more than anything money can buy. Us hobby-ists are never after the money gigs. Play your weddings and corporate events and get paid...no one is offering to do that for free, but if someone wants to throw down a few times a year and pack out a bar or whatever w thier friends for the thrill of performing (and everything that comes with that) and it messes w your financial model then your financial model is a bit too fragile to rely on...I mean, heck you might lose your gig to a karaoke machine if you can't draw a larger crowd than a drunk office crowd after a late night software release.
Now-a-days people are looking for experiential entertainment. Not everyone wants to netflix and chill. There are so many free outlets to promote and get your name out there, cover bands play real venues by me so there really is no excuse. If your game is being ruined by guys willing to play for free then you arent bringing anything to the table and you best snatch whatever paying gigs while you can. Its all simple economics...at the end of the night if you draw the most money you get the gig.
For tangible products, yeah.....but is a music performance a tangible product?
Not a rebuttal - I'm just pondering/thinking out loud
Read my post again - it acknowledges that its a product ( I even bolded it for convenience)....the issue is: Can that be compared to a tangible one?
@Eric Lester said that loss leading products are often "Free samples tend to get stuck under the counter and ignored".....I dont think a band's performance has the capacity to get stuck under the counter, behind the refrigerator, or wedged in the car seat with mummified french fries.............
you get what you don't pay for
Not really. Quite often you get less, sometimes more. Trite saying is trite.
I totally *get* that I’m in the minority here, but I just never was interested in band bucks. If the owner of the venue is making money, my attitude is, good on him!It helps him keep his business open, which helps me enjoy my hobby of playing music!
To me, the determining factor is: is the rest of the staff getting paid? You are there to sell beer, just like the bartenders and waitstaff. They get paid, so should you. It’s irrelevant whether you consider it work or play.
We tried this once- the idea was to build up the venue on a Sunday and then we would get paid. I disagreed but got out-voted by the others. OK, I went along with it- 12 months passed, we played one Sunday a month but never got any money.
So I asked myself- can I get a plumber to come and do one job for free so I can check out his work and the answer was "no", you want a plumber you pay the going rate. So I don't do that anymore, I have worked hard to acquire the skills to do a good job, I should get paid appropriately and that's what I do now, the only exception is charity, I'll do a fundraiser for free.
So I asked myself- can I get a plumber to come and do one job for free so I can check out his work and the answer was "no", you want a plumber you pay the going rate. So I don't do that anymore, I have worked hard to acquire the skills to do a good job, I should get paid appropriately and that's what I do now, the only exception is charity, I'll do a fundraiser for free.
The hobbyists / dad-bands / garage bands are simply filling the market void. We're the ones doing the Moose Lodges, private parties, etc. for $200-350...the gigs the pros won't touch with a 10 foot pole.
Music is a strange agent. It's one of the few professions that requires no licensure / credentialing...unless you're teaching in some instances.
Riis
This is why I think you covers players need a guild/union that sets rates for bands/individuals based on their total performance skill level.
and this is why I think most venues would be sports bars if they had to pay plumber's wages, or even just machinist's or carpenter's wages, to individual musicians in every band that plays.
No thank you, we'll all deal with our business the way we see fit.
Sure. This is why I said before that this business is not like any other. Nobody unplugs toilets for fun.
Totally agree. Now, there are places with high levels of foot traffic in tourist destinations that probably could pay something close to a living wage for a house band. Their downside is that with the higher traffic comes a much higher real estate price. I'm still blown away when we went to Nashville last summer (family trip) and the restaurants all had music, but they were almost all tips-only performances. And they were good. Sign up for an hour slot to perform, pitch your CD, work the crowd, get your tips and then roll out for the next act. I think most of the musicians there look at it as a paid practice.
but there are whackos who do surgery for fun.
There are also Board Certified surgeons who, after years of good work, start doing poor work.
There should be systems in place that prohibit sub-par musicians from performing before a crowd that might be expecting a quality performance. Such systems would lower the supply of musicians and concretely bring their price up to something approaching a scraping-by wage.
If your motivation for playing a musical instrument is to sell alcohol and make money, then that’s what you should continue to do, and I wish you gallons of success! My motivation for playing a musical instrument is simply different than yours.
If we happen to have a paying gig, I always relinquish my share to the other band members. Some of them made less-than-stellar career choices way back when, which put themselves in a position later in life of really needing the band bucks.
Rock on!
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I played music for a living for 30 years...trust me, I get the whole "Gee, maybe I should practice law or medicine on the weekends for fun" attitude from working players......It was different when I started gigging back then -there was no internet and people went out to socialize. Individual gigs were 4,5, and 6 nights per week where dedicated working career players were needed....the ones that were just weekend venues were relegated to the 'weekend warrior' hobbyists.......fast forward to now, and those multi-night gigs are gone. Working players have to "guerrilla gig" to work - playing one night in three different clubs as a single or duo, then maybe with a full band on weekends - usually multiple bands.........and the worst part? For the same money I was making decades ago
Times change. Conestoga Wagon building was a great money-making career in the 1800s - not so much today.....as times change, a person either adapts or gets run over.....after 30 years, I am in my final semester of RN School (graduate in November - take NCLEX in December is the plan) and I'll be gigging for fun....because the working local-gigging bass player career is a thing of the past
By the way - While I blame the internet, non-smoking laws, drunk-driving laws, and a lot of other related factors on the change over the years, I also blame working musicians - many of which play the same setlist for the past thirty years, don't keep up with the times, and put as minimal in to get the job done including lack of the "R-word"("reheasal"- as in none, cause 'time is money').....That kind of apathy also killed the market.
Times change. Conestoga Wagon building was a great money-making career in the 1800s - not so much today.....as times change, a person either adapts or gets run over.....after 30 years, I am in my final semester of RN School (graduate in November - take NCLEX in December is the plan) and I'll be gigging for fun....because the working local-gigging bass player career is a thing of the past
By the way - While I blame the internet, non-smoking laws, drunk-driving laws, and a lot of other related factors on the change over the years, I also blame working musicians - many of which play the same setlist for the past thirty years, don't keep up with the times, and put as minimal in to get the job done including lack of the "R-word"("reheasal"- as in none, cause 'time is money').....That kind of apathy also killed the market.
