Players that won't learn a note

[zonkola]

I worked with someone on two songs. One of them I was writing the music. I told her in messenger which notes to play in the verse. 'I don't know what any notes are. I go by the string and fret'. This same one had written the first song we worked on. She had to tell me the bassline with 'That string that fret' all on the 6th string, where 'B A G' would have done. I found it easier to play on the A string for the first two bars. The first time I did that, she freaked out. She screeched 'You're playing the wrong notes!'
I played her opening B and mine. 'They're the same note. Listen.' She was truly disappointed in herself for going only by string and fret.

Perhaps help her out by pointing her to one of the many free online fretboard note diagrams like this one?

Or maybe buy her one of these posters?

 

[themickster]

Last long? I've been playing jazz bass since '68.

Not in any band I know.

 

[themickster]

Well, this open mike was a regularly occurring thing and I had worked with the monitor many times before, and he used standard tuning, so I kind of was in my comfort zone. Plus, I don't think I had ever worked with a non-standard tuning artist before. I was so blind-sided it never occurred to me to ask what tuning she was in.

It's no worse than playing with a capo

 

[themickster]

Perhaps help her out by pointing her to one of the many free online fretboard note diagrams like this one?

View attachment 5119931

Or maybe buy her one of these posters?

No. She might have learned something from it. That would never do. She's above any learning.

 

[GretschWretch]

It's no worse than playing with a capo

Provided a capo is required. If I had been informed of the non-standard tuning going in, I would have known the root note of her open G chord was first fret E flat on the D string for me and adjusted accordingly. I have been in situations where the BL kicked off a song in the wrong key, catching the entire band flat-footed, but at least we had a common reference point from previous performances to make guesses that were at least educated. Not so with this gal.

 

[Engle]

But there are other ways to be set up for failure. At the Thursday open mic at a local venue I was backing (first time) a local phenom who had placed second on The Voice. As usual, I positioned myself behind and a bit to the left of the soloist so I had a clear sight line to the guitar neck and her hand/thumb movement along it.

Normally I am more than pretty good in these situations (the backstory on that will have to wait until a different thread/post) even on stuff I've never heard before (like this girl's originals), but this night I was getting massacred. I was making the right reads, but the notes were all wrong. After the set I apologized for messing things up and said I could not understand what had happened. Her reply? "Oh, I tune two whole steps down from standard." So what I was hearing as a G chord in reality was an E-flat.

I've jammed with a few guys that tune down the guitar for lower tension on the neck and then play with a capo. AND don't tell you

 

[Koshchei]

Perhaps help her out by pointing her to one of the many free online fretboard note diagrams like this one?

View attachment 5119931

Or maybe buy her one of these posters?

If they're trying to write a song and need that kind of assist, they're beyond help.

When I collaborate, I expect that the person I'm working with knows the idiomatic elements of the genre and has sufficient repertoire to have a conversation about the structural elements of the song and how to extrapolate them out in a novel way. At the very least, the equivalent of Grade 2 RCM and some jazz chord theory.

Not knowing even the notes on their instrument is way beyond the pale.

 

[Ostie]

I don’t fault someone for not knowing the notes when they are a beginner. But not even trying to learn? That’s unforgivable. I’d nope out of that band.

 

[Engle]

Astonishing. I blame bad tutorials on the internet substituting for basic beginner lessons. And laziness.

It's actually surprising what kids can learn to play from youtube videos and tabs. But they will run into a wall when playing with others if they don't know the names of the notes.

 

[EddiePlaysBass]

You stopped a song during a gig????

Wow.

Never stop the song. That is the first rule i learned back in the 80s.

Sounds to me like your ego is a big issue.
Everone makes mistakes playing live. Keep playing. The audience will never know. Never stop the song. Great way to never get a second gig.

I know a ton of players that dont know names of notes or names of chords they are playing. It dont matter. We talk in a way that they understand. I dont demand they do it my way, or amyway. We work together to make it work.

In the words of John Entwistle: "If we stopped every time I make a mistake, we'd be playing in morse code." But he did leave it on the live-album. If the Ox can restart a song, so can we.

Such folk are like Connor McCleod in Highlander, on being told to get a better sword.
McCleod: My claymore's good enough for me.
Ramirez: That's because your fighting's only good enough for the claymore.

They're only as good as what little theory they know.

I love that movie but that quote doesn't ring a bell!!! Wonder what else has been edited out of the TV version

 

[MCF]

It's actually surprising what kids can learn to play from youtube videos and tabs. But they will run into a wall when playing with others if they don't know the names of the notes.

Yep.

 

[GretschWretch]

In the words of John Entwistle: "If we stopped every time I make a mistake, we'd be playing in morse code." But he did leave it on the live-album. If the Ox can restart a song, so can we.

It isn't just John Entwistle.

 

[devnulljp]

trebuchet out of the band

 

[40Hz]

27624006[/URL], member: 44180"]
Never heard of DADGAD tuning...I've only been playing since I started on upright in 1964, so I guess I missed it. OTOH, it's a guitar tuning, not bass. Doesn't make much sense to me unless you're specializing in Celtic music (I looked it up.)

DAGAD and other so called “open” tunings are used in many different styles of music beyond Celtic. Never too late to get educated about it. Joni Mitchell uses many different tunings she’s used in her music. Some she even came up with herself. Kieth Richards of the Rolling Stones plays almost entirely using open G tuning. There’s many more examples of people using open tunings in all types of music if you look.

27624034[/URL], member: 62632"]I would much rather have the 'Ear' than knowledge

The two are not mutually exclusive. I don’t get why people always persist with that either/or argument. From my experience, anyone who can reasonably be called a musician has both both musical knowledge and an ear. The main difference between the two is that an “ear” can be developed if you possess one whereas musical knowledge can be acquired by anyone provided they don’t object to making the (minor) effort required to obtain it.

 

[Chickenwheels]

I don't work with either any more.

Problem solved.

 

[Chickenwheels]

All these threads seem to be venting or sharing hilarious incompetence. No suggestions needed, just have a giggle and move on?

 

[ebo]

I played in a Celtic band where the guitar was in DADGAD. No charts. Took a while to identify what the chord shapes were when looking at the guitarist but I figured them out. Weird chord progressions as well. It was fun and a great learning experience, but stressful when they’d launch into something I was completely unfamiliar with. Being willing to learn and grow is more than half the battle.

 

[Febs]

Never stop the song. That is the first rule i learned back in the 80s.

Sounds to me like your ego is a big issue.
Everone makes mistakes playing live. Keep playing. The audience will never know. Never stop the song. Great way to never get a second gig.

I hear that this guy never got another gig after stopping this song.

 

[Lance Bunyon]

This thread makes my head hurt.

 

[40Hz]

Not everyone is as intolerant as you. Neither of you would last long, based on one comment each.

I think it’s far more demeaning to allow someone to persist in willful ignorance. Becoming minimally educated in music isn't a herculean task. And assuming someone is incapable of learning something basic is both arrogant as well as insulting in my book.

And any music teacher, as well as virtually every musician anywhere, will tell you if you never learn anything else, then at least learn what and where the notes are. That’s not being “unkind,” “inconsiderate,” “insensitive,” “failing to accommodate” or any one of a dozen other virtue signaling bromides. It’s simple reality.